tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post2619187949222899504..comments2023-10-08T12:11:52.993+13:00Comments on New Zealand Conservative: Pope recommends penanceLucia Mariahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10485990994973953860noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-20860572972069515562010-04-20T11:34:55.679+12:002010-04-20T11:34:55.679+12:00Not exactly. I meant that comment in a slightly d...Not exactly. I meant that comment in a slightly different way than I think you interpreted it:<br /><br />Given the widespread Irish abuse cases, I was not surprised to see that the Irish managed to export some of the abusers.<br /><br />It's like saying "no surprises" to find that a man caught abusing his own child was also abused as a child. In that context, the idea is not advanced as an excuse, but as a measure of understanding.<br /><br />So I think you have taken the wrong interpretation. <br /><br />Your counter implied answer of "it's just the Church" would also indicate too simplistic a response. <br /><br />By studying the causes and effects, we will learn how to safeguard children in other large organisations from a small percentage of abusers, and the few evil or naive managers who cover it up. There are many organisations from the 30's through to the 80's faced with exactly the same history, less reported but no less prevalent.ZenTigerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07888629207437612884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-57032853196673927782010-04-20T09:13:09.604+12:002010-04-20T09:13:09.604+12:00"Boston. (No surprises it had a heavy Irish i..."Boston. (No surprises it had a heavy Irish influence)."<br /><br />Nice, it's not the Church, it's the Irish. That must be everyone else blamed now surely?Bearhunterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06927373498537533968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-76761619757992547272010-04-18T20:41:09.854+12:002010-04-18T20:41:09.854+12:00I perused some of Johann's previous work, and ...I perused some of Johann's previous work, and he manages to invent theories of conspiracy by quoting Canon Laws without understanding them.<br /><br />For example, in the case of the 1962 document, Crimen sollicitationis which dealt with abuses involving the sacrament of penance (confessions), it would of course require utmost secrecy, as whatever is said in the confession by any confessor must be held in the strictest of confidence. This concept is stronger than the journalists who go to jail to "protect the confidentiality of their source" or the lawyer who keeps the confidence of a client.<br /><br />Even so, these "procedures of secrecy" related only to the internal trial, and were for the protection of the accused and the victims, until the facts of the case had been ascertained. The results of the trial could have public implications - such as defrocking, excommunication etc. <br /><br />This is in addition to the victim's rights to take the case to the secular authorities and the secular authorities impose punishment according to the laws of the land.<br /><br />Yet Johann sees it as some sort of conspiracy of silence.<br /><br />It's a ludicrous thought, because it would be like arguing that there is only one law and one action that the Church has ever done, and that it is this law, ignoring all the other laws and processes in place to deal with the issues arising from sexual abuse. This short explanation might clarify this for you:<br /><br /><em>Interviewed for a television programme in 2006, canon lawyer Thomas Doyle described the tight secrecy demanded for the procedure as "an explicit written policy to cover up cases of child sexual abuse by the clergy, to punish those who would call attention to these crimes by churchmen".[8] However, in the study of the instruction that he revised less than two years later he stated: "According to the document, accusers and witnesses are bound by the secrecy obligation during and after the process but certainly not prior to the initiation of the process. There is no basis to assume that the Holy See envisioned this process to be a substitute for any secular legal process, criminal or civil. It is also incorrect to assume, as some have unfortunately done, that these two Vatican documents are proof of a conspiracy to hide sexually abusive priests or to prevent the disclosure of sexual crimes committed by clerics to secular authorities."[9]<br /><br />John L. Allen, Jr. has said the secrecy was aimed rather at the protection of all involved, the accused, the victim/denouncer and the witnesses, before the verdict was passed, and for free finding of facts.[10]</em> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimen_sollicitationis" rel="nofollow">[Wikipedia]</a>ZenTigerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07888629207437612884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-58877105703505728312010-04-18T11:23:18.635+12:002010-04-18T11:23:18.635+12:00Johan Hari on BBC's dateline on why the Pope s...Johan Hari on BBC's dateline on why the Pope should be prosecuted.<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uEUtc2scy0Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com