tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post4869830371265215921..comments2023-10-08T12:11:52.993+13:00Comments on New Zealand Conservative: The faces of modern femininity and parental conservatismLucia Mariahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10485990994973953860noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-17742456014491257752011-04-20T14:55:59.853+12:002011-04-20T14:55:59.853+12:00@Rageaholic, there are very few men who have a cov...@Rageaholic, there are very few men who have a covenant with their eyes not to look lustfully at women on the street... It's tough stuff (trust me) and harder when women are provocatively dressed... <br /><br />How people dress creates a sexual anticipation, and there is a difference between the sexes, in the case of women if they are scantily clad men assume they will be easier to convince to have consenting sex... This creates pressure on society in general to lower it's sexual standards...<br /><br />Casual sex is damaging for individuals and society because of numerous reasons, e.g. feelings of emptiness, disease and addiction... It's why Christians surround sex with covenantal commitment...<br /><br />So there is a link, from the Christian perspective, between how people are dressed and the pressure (not necessarily physical force) on them to have non-committed sex and that activity to have negative consequences for individuals and society...<br /><br />I personally don't view it as progress when the moral tone is lower than it was...Jeremy Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05819630707494648769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-15844107574191921112011-04-20T13:17:30.884+12:002011-04-20T13:17:30.884+12:00But Andrei, that is not the way the world works. ...But Andrei, that is not the way the world works. Not every woman who is dressed in a way that you deem inappropriate gets unwanted attention, and not every man who is dressed “agro” is the victim of random attacks. And if these things do occur, the attacker is always wrong; that why sexual harassment, assault and rape are against the law. Show me where is the law it says that these things are legal based on what the victim was wearing, and itemises exactly what these clothes are (because surely your personal opinions on fashion do not determine what a crime is or not).<br /><br />And being harassed causes harm and is not analogous to thinking “hm, it’s unusual to see a bank teller dressed like that”. If you saw a bank teller dressed prostitute-y and harassed her, YOU would be in the wrong.<br /><br />Frankly, I really hope I never pass you on the street during the summer. Your belief that wearing a short skirt and strappy revealing singlet will cause me to be harmed, and that’s just the way the world is, makes me a little afraid of you. Not men, not my outfit, but YOU.Rageaholichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08703472158585638232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-78333784048035912122011-04-19T14:42:23.250+12:002011-04-19T14:42:23.250+12:00Poor Boganette;
You don't get ...Poor Boganette; <br /> <br />You don't get it do you. The way you present yourself in the world is highly correlated to the way the world treats you. <br /><br />Thus you never see a customer services manager in a bank dressed like a prostitute on K Road, or with horrible facial piercings or tattoos. <br /><br />It just doesn't work that way. <br /><br />Now if you insist upon dressing and behaving in manners which make other people uncomfortable they will reject you.<br /><br />And if you are a girl dress in a way that says "I'm Available" you will get that type of attention whether desired or no.<br /><br />And if you are a guy and you dress in a way that is agro, you will get into lots of fights and so forth.<br /><br />No point whining about it, the world isn't going to change to suit you.Andreihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04536593172412406428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-18651047902074118342011-04-19T12:53:08.216+12:002011-04-19T12:53:08.216+12:00ZT - Are you attempting to channel Hunter S. Thomp...ZT - Are you attempting to channel Hunter S. Thompson? It's not working. <br /><br />I don't see being a slut as a bad thing. So if I called you a slut it wouldn't be an insult. My comments about consenting adults were made in response to Saint Lucia's comment "However, I'm not talking about men who don't know what no means. I'm talking about men who just want someone to have sex with and goes out to find an appropriate (and willing) partner." Don't worry, I totally get that it's hard for you to follow a busy thread. Big, scary ideas like your daughter dressing herself in the morning overwhelm you so obviously a blog thread with more than two people commenting is something that's just too complicated for you to follow.<br /><br />You should be trying to change the attitudes of men who attack women with 'unwanted attention'. Instead of blaming your daughters if they're the victims of that unwanted attention. They will never feel safe coming to you if they've been hurt if you're pushing the message that how they dress is a factor in how they're treated by predators. As a father - you should consider that. The fact that you used the term 'asking for it' speaks volumes. I hope if you have daughters they have people other than you they can talk to about assault and 'unwanted attention'.Boganettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07253374355820020132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-21898706320041766782011-04-18T20:28:27.946+12:002011-04-18T20:28:27.946+12:00Oh my golly gosh, what a lot of silliness (with a ...Oh my golly gosh, what a lot of silliness (with a big dose of sense from B and a few others). and no, I am not a sycophant.<br /><br />To even consider that any of the images would be "inappropriate" for a woman is insulting. If I had a daughter, and she chose to look be like any of those images, I would feel nothing but pride and love for her.<br /><br />"Lesbians are women apart"?? What, you mean they aren't real women?<br /><br />What I really struggled with through this entire thing is why the heck women have to be "feminine" (whatever that means). And even why we continue to establish the duality of men and women when in fact it is a continuum.<br /><br />I'm a male, but I would consider I have a "feminine" behaviour and personality. If my daughter had a masculine personality, it wouldn't concern me in the least.<br /><br />Going back to the original point, there would be only a few issues I would have with how my daughter would "go out in public":<br /><br />The basics of wearing the right amount for the temperature - I'd prefer her not to go out in skimpy clothes if it was freezing or over-dressed if it was hot.<br />Given the fact that men still prey on certain women that she was able to defend herself and be confident enough to be safe.<br />That she was happy and felt good about herself.<br /><br />Oh and Paul - what is wrong with the photo you talk about? What "sort of thing can happen"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-69807072984325677212011-04-18T08:39:10.084+12:002011-04-18T08:39:10.084+12:001. Unwanted attention, not necessarily rape.
2. No...1. Unwanted attention, not necessarily rape.<br />2. No, not "all men are rapists", but "protect my daughter from the one potential bad event". Whether it is logical or illogical is almost a side issue. It is not a commentary on the entire male species though.<br />3. Not forcing anyone to be covered "head to toe" on a "hot summers day" is not being said. No-one here is talking about forcing the wearing of sheets, blankets and burqas. It's about "dressing appropriately" which can still be quite a range.ZenTigerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07888629207437612884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-66824764223002635542011-04-17T19:49:18.466+12:002011-04-17T19:49:18.466+12:00First off, the main problem with the claim that &q...First off, the main problem with the claim that "provocative clothing" causes sexual assault is that it is just not true. Rape doesn't happen when a male sees a female who in unknown to him and wearing a short skirt, or showing lots of cleavage. 90% of sexual offenders are known to their victim: http://www.rapecrisis.org.nz/pdf/Date%20Rape%20(Read-Only).pdf The rape crisis website does not mention what those 90% of women are wearing when they get raped, because it's IRRELEVANT. As a matter of fact, in the tips to avoid rape it does not say anything about manner of dress because it’s IRRELEVANT.<br /><br />Second, I am really uncomfortable with the way men are being portrayed as all being potential rapists, as if they see a shirt skirt and can no longer control themselves. I like to give men, and people in general, a lot more credit than that. As a sexual being myself, I can say that I often see attractive men around wearing tight jeans that leave little to the imagination. I have never raped or otherwise assaulted any of them.<br /><br />Lastly, it gets HOT in the summer! I often go out during the warmer months in a short skirt and strappy singlet, because I would suffer if I was wearing more than that. Forcing someone, even a teenage girl, to cover themselves head to toe "just in case" seems like a mild form of torture.Rageaholichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08703472158585638232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-61856136620875892682011-04-17T13:26:21.731+12:002011-04-17T13:26:21.731+12:00Boganette, I asked a question, not express an opin...Boganette, I asked a question, not express an opinion so there you go again seeing more than is there. <br /><br />For example this post was about parents worrying about how their teenage daughters dress might attract unwanted attention by men who treat women as objects rather than people. Some people see a short skirt and go "slut" instead of seeing this person as a child of Christ. It's a tough world.<br /><br />Boganette acts like one of those people. She sees a glimpse of an idea that she feels shows too much skin and shouts a metaphorical "slut" at Andrei and Lucia. They show a little leg of an idea and suddenly Boganette is heaping scorn and derision on them. She's already decided what "kind of people" they are and is now justified in her own mind to treat them accordingly. Scorn. Patronizing terms. Suggesting far more than what was said by them<br /><br />Talk about a teen daughter going out in inappropriate clothing and Boganette is mounting a case that what consenting adults do is no concern of ours. Did Boganette just mistake a button for a glimpse of nipple? "Stay in the kitchen and prepare for the rapture" she sneers. Why not just say "slut"? to our dirty ideas that consenting adults are discussing?<br /><br />What's the excuse for being so abusive? Nothing more than the typical defense of such people caught in the act: "Well, they asked for it"ZenTigerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07888629207437612884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-89352261098891580622011-04-17T10:11:37.607+12:002011-04-17T10:11:37.607+12:00I think that was the first line of a hymn we sang ...I think that was the first line of a hymn we sang at school.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07698462817285436315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-64687642995901232692011-04-17T09:06:45.066+12:002011-04-17T09:06:45.066+12:00Out come the freaks when their sin is challenged.Out come the freaks when their sin is challenged.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-49584361272431144302011-04-17T07:44:30.971+12:002011-04-17T07:44:30.971+12:00Why do you lot keep looking for reasons to be abus...Why do you lot keep looking for reasons to be abusive towards women? Why are you looking for loopholes in how a woman dresses, or in ZT's case - what she says - in order to show no 'restraint' or respect for them? It's creepy!<br /><br />Also, I know you asked Laurie - but what I said was just straight up good advice. Why aren't you guys busy planning for the rapture? You're wasting precious breeding time worrying about what women are wearing when they're not your daughters (who you obviously view as possessions that you can dress up like weird little gingham covered Barbie dolls). Just chill, relax. Dress up as Jesus and take sermons from your kitchen. Just don't stress so much about what consenting adults are doing. It has nothing to do with you. And just try to be good human beings who don't judge people for how they choose to express themselves physically. What someone wears isn't your business. Don't be creepy. OK? Nowhere in the bible does it say "rate women on your shitty blog as to whether or not you approve of their clothing". There is a lot of weird stuff in the bible but I know it doesn't say that. So try and be good Christians. Maybe pray on it. K?Boganettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07253374355820020132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-48393087260704089332011-04-16T22:18:34.269+12:002011-04-16T22:18:34.269+12:00You're the one who just sees women as incubato...<em>You're the one who just sees women as incubators ready to be filled up with their husband's sperm day in, day out, in between cooking and cleaning and praying.</em><br /><br />Are you sure you aren't an FBI profiler Boganette? Awesome work. Apart from the getting it wrong bit.ZenTigerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07888629207437612884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-21734560553463099982011-04-16T22:09:44.131+12:002011-04-16T22:09:44.131+12:00Saint Lucia - It doesn't matter how a woman dr...<em>Saint Lucia - It doesn't matter how a woman dresses</em><br /><br />Is that like saying it doesn't matter what you say?ZenTigerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07888629207437612884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-83052244326950362632011-04-16T20:27:54.428+12:002011-04-16T20:27:54.428+12:00You're jumping to more matronising conclusions...<em>You're jumping to more matronising conclusions if you think I hate women.</em><br /><br />That doesn't seem to stop yourself and Boganette jumping to your own conclusions, by adding a lot more supposition to what Lucia says. Funny how you don't see yourself doing it to others, but get tetchy if the same thing happens. <br /><br /><em>I kid! Saint Lucia! It's OK. Look dear, just focus on your family and your husband and don't stress about what consenting adults are doing with each other. You're going to get wrinkles. And you don't want that!</em><br /><br />Hey Laurie, is Boganette patronising or matronising in this instance?ZenTigerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07888629207437612884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-4766047094920110422011-04-16T19:43:42.114+12:002011-04-16T19:43:42.114+12:00The one at bottom right (if you will pardon the ex...The one at bottom right (if you will pardon the expression) obviously forgot to put on her dress and now is waiting for a bus, still oblivious to her deshabille. This sort of thing can happen to a girl if she spends too much time thinking about feminism of the third kind and not enough about her wardrobe. This photograph should serve as a warning to all young ladies who are tempted to indulge in feminist discourse.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08024440694895271805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-77851805336795728002011-04-16T19:17:11.431+12:002011-04-16T19:17:11.431+12:00I had to disapprove the rugby photo because I woul...I had to disapprove the rugby photo because I wouldn't want her playing it (but then, I wouldn't want my son playing it either), and the Amy Winehouse one because I certainly couldn't stand the thought of my daughter wandering about as a skeletal, addled junkie. As to the rest, it's all good if that's what she wants.Psycho Milthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00779500926576047736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-22509756772954467122011-04-16T19:04:50.708+12:002011-04-16T19:04:50.708+12:00I'm talking to Andrei, Lucia Maria, because he...I'm talking to Andrei, Lucia Maria, because he was the one that was talking about femininity, and to you, because you are the one who is engaging with dissent. You're both obviously internet savvy in some way because you are, after all, members of a forums. Surely, then, you are capable of going to Google and researching the concept of femininity in some depth? Because your idea of accessibility, restraint and femininity possibly needs a bit more thinking through. Andrei spoke of daughters, and femininity. I am assuming, never having read this blog before, that your version of femininity is very valued, and that, as expressed by yourself, Lucia, it is to do with restraint. That, in fact, women who are sluts or rugby players, for example, are not feminine. I am simply asking you if you acknowledge that that is a very subjective idea of femininity. I personally have never been that interested in being feminine. But whether I am or not is irrelevant. What needs thinking about is - who are you to tell others what constitutes femininity? How do you know what sluts or rugby players feel? If they want to be "feminine" that's their thing. Not yours. Being anything doesn't preclude being anything else.Jackiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14275445519501744525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-646620169788125762011-04-16T18:34:05.444+12:002011-04-16T18:34:05.444+12:00Hahaha Lesbians are women apart? Is there somethin...Hahaha Lesbians are women apart? Is there something you're not telling us Saint Lucia? <br /><br />Also, how can I not be getting hot and bothered when you're talking about lesbians and possibly coming out to the entire blogosphere? <br /><br />I kid! Saint Lucia! It's OK. Look dear, just focus on your family and your husband and don't stress about what consenting adults are doing with each other. You're going to get wrinkles. And you don't want that!Boganettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07253374355820020132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-73222231817270183352011-04-16T18:29:54.555+12:002011-04-16T18:29:54.555+12:00Um, Boganette,
Jesus would not be looking into p...Um, Boganette, <br /><br /><i>Jesus would not be looking into people's windows and getting all hot and bothered about who they're having sex with.</i><br /><br />Who is on who's blog? Who is getting all hot and bothered?Lucia Mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10485990994973953860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-43441232812487114062011-04-16T18:28:24.681+12:002011-04-16T18:28:24.681+12:00Boganette,
Yeah, if I hate women, how can I be a ...Boganette,<br /><br /><i>Yeah, if I hate women, how can I be a lesbian hahaha. That's a bit weird. Didn't think that one through did ya?</i><br /><br />Lesbians are women apart. Different from those that get "filled up by their husband's sperm."Lucia Mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10485990994973953860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-74819837907891313442011-04-16T18:27:00.004+12:002011-04-16T18:27:00.004+12:00Hahaha ummm I think you need to look up in the dic...Hahaha ummm I think you need to look up in the dictionary what a lesbian is. <br /><br />Listen, if you think that anyone who doesn't share your view of sex (that of lying on your back and praying really hard that it's over quickly and you end up pregnant) is a lesbian, then ummmm you're pretty much living in a world that is 90% lesbian. <br /><br />So YAY! for lesbian world domination! Not that it matters, but I'm not a lesbian. I also don't view sex as being for procreation purposes only. <br /><br />Also, if two people want to have sex with each other, and are freely able to consent - you should probably leave them alone and let them have sex with each other. It's kind of pervy to want to stop two consenting adults (who don't know you and you don't know them) from having sex. I mean, can't you just do some baking or like spend some time highlighting your favourite parts of the bible instead of worrying about consenting adults choosing to have sex with each other? You're not actually being forced to get involved. So maybe, live and let live? That's what Jesus would do.<br /><br />Jesus would not be looking into people's windows and getting all hot and bothered about who they're having sex with.Boganettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07253374355820020132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-29648536473909174112011-04-16T18:22:43.308+12:002011-04-16T18:22:43.308+12:00This story is a little dated but not, I think, irr...This story is a little dated but not, I think, irrelevant: <br /><br /><i>The Catholic Church in Rome made the extraordinary admission yesterday that it is aware priests from at least 23 countries have been sexually abusing nuns.<br /><br />The Catholic Church in Rome made the extraordinary admission yesterday that it is aware priests from at least 23 countries have been sexually abusing nuns.<br /><br />Most of the abuse has occurred in Africa, where priests vowed to celibacy, who previously sought out prostitutes, have preyed on nuns to avoid contracting the Aids virus.</i><br /><br />http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vatican-confirms-report-of-sexual-abuse-and-rape-of-nuns-by-priests-in-23-countries-688261.htmlDanylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13311640522845983736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-44444339506405677522011-04-16T18:21:42.424+12:002011-04-16T18:21:42.424+12:00So, basically you're saying that a woman has t...<i>So, basically you're saying that a woman has to earn the respect of a man so that he doesn't objectify her and violate her, that it isn't a right she can expect from birth... but a woman has to accept that a man has the right to violate her, until she earns his respect?</i><br /><br />Nope - it's a two way street, a man has to earn a woman's respect and if he does and she has earned his then and only then can a relationship progress. <br /><br />It was called courtship in the old days.Andreihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04536593172412406428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-37394547030359969802011-04-16T18:20:52.254+12:002011-04-16T18:20:52.254+12:00Are you talking to me, Jackie? Or the blog post a...Are you talking to me, Jackie? Or the blog post author, Andrei?Lucia Mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10485990994973953860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-86684544130410345272011-04-16T18:17:35.402+12:002011-04-16T18:17:35.402+12:00Do you understand that different cultures have a d...Do you understand that different cultures have a differing view of what constitutes femininity? Do you acknowledge that your view of femininity is very subjective?Jackiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14275445519501744525noreply@blogger.com