tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post5522942058556276635..comments2023-10-08T12:11:52.993+13:00Comments on New Zealand Conservative: Imagine a world with no religion - Part ILucia Mariahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10485990994973953860noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-83734886978157320662010-12-17T11:52:03.309+13:002010-12-17T11:52:03.309+13:00Usually the adverts are in the sidebar :-)Usually the adverts are in the sidebar :-)ZenTigerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07888629207437612884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-17773519268610827832010-12-17T09:00:57.967+13:002010-12-17T09:00:57.967+13:00Zen,
sounds like you need to get yourself a "...Zen,<br /><br />sounds like you need to get yourself a "Mortein odourless mozzie zapper" plug with mat refills!Lucia Mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10485990994973953860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-45871845196865271962010-12-16T22:24:14.359+13:002010-12-16T22:24:14.359+13:00This comment has been removed by the author.ZenTigerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07888629207437612884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-53745223605984459552010-12-16T22:22:34.651+13:002010-12-16T22:22:34.651+13:00Sorry folks, away for a few days. Will post over ...Sorry folks, away for a few days. Will post over the week-end, when I'm back. <br /><br />If I survive the mossies.<br /><br />Here's a great method for detecting them. Lights on = apparently hardly any. Lights off (just had a power failure) but laptop screen on, and they start landing on the screen every few seconds in the dozens. I'm going to get eaten alive tonight. <br /><br />LS - Yes, all religions are not equal, like all political systems are not equal. <br /><br />Like some political systems, they may be totalitarian or they may be manipulated to becomes so. But that is the same with most things.<br /><br />As for respecting human life, and individuals not having a fundamental right to exist as a purpose in and of themselves - some religions extend that to the unborn and the recently born, not to mention are focused on the individual in every sense, for the betterment of the individual.<br /><br />Sometimes, the things we submit to are our desires and wants rather than our needs (physical and spiritual) and it can distract us from seeing that there is something bigger. :-)ZenTigerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07888629207437612884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-51572873962515266532010-12-16T04:12:18.512+13:002010-12-16T04:12:18.512+13:00My fundamental point is that it doesn't matter...My fundamental point is that it doesn't matter whether people personally believe in supernatural entities or not - it is the philosophical belief that human beings have no inherent rights to exist for their own purpose, but they exist as the means to the end of a "grand plan", that has created the rivers of blood in history.<br /><br />All totalitarianism is inspired by the idea that individuals do not have the fundamental right to exist as a purpose in and of themselves and to pursue their own objectives - they all seek submission to something bigger.Libertyscotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12741049550997300680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-8006698257698621322010-12-15T17:19:22.911+13:002010-12-15T17:19:22.911+13:00Hi Lex,
Your comment was in the Spam Filter. Sor...Hi Lex,<br /><br />Your comment was in the Spam Filter. Sorry about that (it's not us, it's Blogger that puts comments there). I just had to mark it as Not Spam, and back it comes!Lucia Mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10485990994973953860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-91996517393618247872010-12-15T16:59:37.561+13:002010-12-15T16:59:37.561+13:00Thanks for the clarification (so far). Your respo...Thanks for the clarification (so far). Your response makes sense and resolves that little point.<br /><br />I hope the rest of my post returns.Lexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05292314228379652213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-943403129580849982010-12-15T10:10:23.963+13:002010-12-15T10:10:23.963+13:00Good topic, I am trying to find time to address yo...Good topic, I am trying to find time to address your points with consideration for both the arguments and their proponent.<br /><br />Let me just say first up, I won't be relying on John lennon as a major source.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-80812087668834542402010-12-15T09:08:01.014+13:002010-12-15T09:08:01.014+13:00Great comment [name remains hidden to protect the ...Great comment [name remains hidden to protect the innocent], but the thing has disappeared or my browser has flipped. I'm between flights at the moment so will address it in full later (assuming it manifests itself).<br /><br />One quick response to one point:<br /><br /><em>I’m not sure that I understand your assertion here. You make the point that people believe in God because they are capable of independent and free thought. But later you state that to deny God is to deny creative thinking. </em><br /><br />Sorry, I'm doing a John Lennon. Say one thing, mean something entirely else. (this line requires the context of the full comment, hope it comes back)<br /><br />I merely meant that to deny the possibility of God is to deny philosophy and creative thinking. Part of that creative thinking is to certainly arrive at any conclusion, not just God, so yes, this includes deciding to be an atheist.ZenTigerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07888629207437612884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-74945302167346903852010-12-15T06:16:26.353+13:002010-12-15T06:16:26.353+13:00I’m not sure that I understand your assertion here...I’m not sure that I understand your assertion here. You make the point that people believe in God because they are capable of independent and free thought. But later you state that to deny God is to deny creative thinking. This reads as a one-to-one relationship. In order to rationalize the existence of God and choose to adopt a belief, one must be able to think. I get that. But surely a denial of God by an individual may come about through exactly the creative thinking that leads others to believe?<br /><br />Secondly you talk of two things as if they were one (or at least that is the impression I take as a reader). You refer to religion, and you speak of God (in the Christian sense). I’d be interested in how you see your comments applying to the other two religions originating from Judaism – Judaism itself and Islam. Further, how would your comments be applied to the various other belief systems alive around the world today, including the Eastern religions?<br /><br />Your analogy of an ant colony is interesting. One might use that analogy in another way – that a set of rules, unquestioned, will be adopted and followed. This then leads us to ask whether aspects of our behavior and belief systems are based on norms learned through the environment within which we are raised. A young girl receiving her First Communion may believe in God, but has not yet matured intellectually to a point where she can rationalize it. A child of five may believe in Father Christmas, but only because this belief has been learned through his upbringing, not through philosophy.<br /><br />Many philosophers are and were atheists - Friedrich Nietzsche is an obvious example. We are free to agree or disagree with the religious criticisms of such thinkers, but to conclude that their denial of the existence of God is also a denial of creative thinking is a nexus I cannot see.<br /><br />As a small diversion, I appreciate your reference to John Lennon’s “Imagine” and its purpose to segue into your piece, but should point out that Lennon himself commented on the use of the words “no religion too”. The song was about aspects of society that are divisive and contribute to discord. His reference to property played the same role. Lennon would rather have explained that he meant different denominations and different belief systems (the then current “Troubles” in Northern Island and Middle East conflict being examples of discord with a religious relationship), but within the constraints of a tune he used the word “religion”. It was not his intention to suggestion a world entirely free of religious belief systems, but rather a desire for a world in which religious belief systems are not a reason for conflict. We grapple with the same issue to this day.Lexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05292314228379652213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-20797035760713571832010-12-14T22:58:55.777+13:002010-12-14T22:58:55.777+13:00Yep, can't argue with that.
(And I have a fee...Yep, can't argue with that.<br /><br />(And I have a feeling discussing the Lennon song might draw more comments than the central topic of the post. I'm so glad I find that funny rather than depressing)ZenTigerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07888629207437612884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-64366140818700059982010-12-14T20:50:34.883+13:002010-12-14T20:50:34.883+13:00I think the best critique of 'Imagine' com...I think the best critique of 'Imagine' comes from simply watching the music video, in which Lennon invites us to 'imagine there's no possessions' while playing a grand piano inside the music room of his gigantic mansion.Danylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13311640522845983736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-47830965029136517822010-12-14T16:31:26.579+13:002010-12-14T16:31:26.579+13:00(Yes, I know Jesus has managed this, but Kim will ...(Yes, I know Jesus has managed this, but Kim will have to try a bit harder). Then there's the whole "Green Religion" thing, and other forms of Religion that don't explicitly involve God, but instead elevate things to God-like status. <br /><br />I'm not sure that is the main issue that people like LRO rail against, but I was going to cover this in a different line of discussion, but your comment was good because I'll make sure to address it further than I intended.<br /><br />But don't let that stop a few comments now. All grist for the mill.ZenTigerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07888629207437612884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-68352700332556438742010-12-14T16:12:20.826+13:002010-12-14T16:12:20.826+13:00Well that completely unravels my whole argument.
...Well that completely unravels my whole argument.<br /><br />Oh, hang on. Calling a man God. Maybe not.ZenTigerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07888629207437612884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-27829103401826234342010-12-14T15:35:08.016+13:002010-12-14T15:35:08.016+13:00In North Korea Kim Il-Sung (who died in 1994) is s...In North Korea Kim Il-Sung (who died in 1994) is still their 'eternal president'. Newly wed couples lay flowers at the foot of his statues, and celebrate his 'never-ending life'. I don't think they've got the hang of the whole 'imagine there's no religion' concept.Danylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13311640522845983736noreply@blogger.com