tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post3705675833501172385..comments2023-10-08T12:11:52.993+13:00Comments on New Zealand Conservative: The evil that men doLucia Mariahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10485990994973953860noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-83148091381088087572011-08-03T00:22:43.424+12:002011-08-03T00:22:43.424+12:00Just read the Peter Kreeft link on moral relativis...Just read the Peter Kreeft link on moral relativism. Nice.ZenTigerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07888629207437612884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-59188766904373102742011-08-02T22:50:33.825+12:002011-08-02T22:50:33.825+12:00My 2 cents worth:
If God exists, it is quite poss...My 2 cents worth:<br /><br />If God exists, it is quite possible we have a soul that lives beyond this physical realm, and it would most likely follow that there is an absolute standard of good and evil.<br /><br />Evil would be acts of thought or deed that harm your soul and create a break or separation from God. <br /><br />Hell is often seen as a complete rejection from God, and that in itself creates perpetual suffering. <br /><br />People that are deliberately evil are making a conscious decision to reject God and are likely therefore to continue that choice rather than truly repent, after death, although that path is often open to people.<br /><br />All people have some sense of good and evil, but it can clearly be warped, blinded, suppressed or misunderstood.<br /><br />At the very least, ones cultural context and the environment one is brought up in will form part of that mask.<br /><br />When viewing different cultures, we can more easily see this degree of blindness. However, that doesn't provide a justification to assert moral relativism, just because an observer can see that the people committing evil don't see it that way.<br /><br />Rather than accept that people have different standards, why not presume people have different levels of blindness to such things?<br /><br />Even ignorance is no barrier to committing evil, and people may harm their immortal soul through evil acts in their ignorance, although such evil is more easily forgiven than deliberate acts. <br /><br /><em>"Forgive them father for they know not what they do"</em><br /><br />Men can justify any evil, so man's justification is of suspicious use in determining good or evil.<br /><br />If one strives to live a life of perfect love and charity, free of pride and other sins, one would soon begin to see the lines between good and evil more clearly.<br /><br />Unfortunately, I haven't so its no use asking me for specifics.ZenTigerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07888629207437612884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-54452987566041690652011-08-02T11:12:12.205+12:002011-08-02T11:12:12.205+12:00"Religious dogma just explicitly defines what..."Religious dogma just explicitly defines what man could discern for himself, if were in a state where all the actions of his life didn't get in the way."<br />Yep. Life's messy.And complicated.<br />But religious dogma is also messy, inasmuch as it has been subject to various interpretations and distortions in the service of individual humans.And organisations.<br />So it's little better than "what a man could discern for himself" in the light of his experience, far as I can see.<br />I can't stress enough (if it isn't already obvious) how unqualified I am to offer an opinion here but just be patient and regard it as a reconaissance mission. :)KGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01940428991630766942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-87756669998213502882011-08-02T09:32:30.106+12:002011-08-02T09:32:30.106+12:00KG,
If you'd like to be convinced, read this ...KG,<br /><br />If you'd like to be convinced, read this link: <a href="http://www.peterkreeft.com/audio/05_relativism/relativism_transcription.htm" rel="nofollow">A refutation of moral relativism</a><br /><br />Religious dogma just explicitly defines what man could discern for himself, if were in a state where all the actions of his life didn't get in the way. As Peter Kreeft says in the link above, first quoting Chesterton:<br /><br /><b>"Morality is always dreadfully complicated to a man who has lost all his principles." Principles mean moral absolutes. Unchanging rocks beneath the changing waves of feelings and practices. Moral relativism is a philosophy that denies moral absolutes.</b><br /><br />Moral absolutes are what define good and evil. If what defined evil was what a man wanted it to be, then any man could do an evil act and call it good. It does not give a universal standard of behaviour to which we should all be subject. It allows us to be our own god, which is the very fault that caused humanity to fall from grace in the first place.Lucia Mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10485990994973953860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-14832547570772443292011-08-02T08:40:55.011+12:002011-08-02T08:40:55.011+12:00PM,
That wasn't an argument for belief. Ther...PM,<br /><br />That wasn't an argument for belief. There are numerous people who have believed in God and rejected Him because they want to be independant. I was one of them when I was in my early 20's.<br /><br />KG,<br /><br />I'm not trying to convince you. :)Lucia Mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10485990994973953860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-71928849443870332362011-08-02T06:42:03.908+12:002011-08-02T06:42:03.908+12:00"...I came to the conclusion that man can log..."...I came to the conclusion that man can logic his way to any position and call it good. Men who want to be independant of God will always lead to evil..."Psycho Milthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00779500926576047736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-73235745451287556222011-08-02T01:13:00.115+12:002011-08-02T01:13:00.115+12:00Hmm..I'm not convinced. Nothing you have writt...Hmm..I'm not convinced. Nothing you have written, LM demonstrates that there is an absolute standard by which something can be judged to be evil.<br /><br />The opinion of the Catholic Church won't suffice, any more than the words of Jesus to one who isn't familiar with either. I'm no theologian and I belong to no church so I'm not qualified to argue the point in detail.<br />But it seems to me that the judgement of what constitutes an evil act resides <i>outside</i> religious dogma for people like me.<br /><br />I'll answer to the creator if I'm wrong. :)KGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01940428991630766942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-19598327636555474822011-08-01T23:22:39.105+12:002011-08-01T23:22:39.105+12:00PM,
After rereading my post and comments, I cann...PM, <br /><br />After rereading my post and comments, I cannot see where I make that argument. I don't think I've ever made that argument as belief is not enough. Satan and all the fallen angels believe in God and they're not even close to being on a sure moral footing.Lucia Mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10485990994973953860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-26704442202992790112011-08-01T23:00:28.434+12:002011-08-01T23:00:28.434+12:00I don't believe in gods, let alone people runn...I don't believe in gods, let alone people running their errands. But you're making an argument that belief in God provides a sure moral footing, unlike the secularist's tendency to blather morality into whatever he'd like it to be. The problem with your argument is that we have these pretty intense God-believers peddling a moral foundation that's repugnant to just about every non-Muslim on the planet.Psycho Milthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00779500926576047736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-66882518274562981242011-08-01T21:38:31.584+12:002011-08-01T21:38:31.584+12:00PM,
Don't actually see the connection.
The ...PM,<br /><br />Don't actually see the connection. <br /><br />The Taliban get their ideas of what and what constitutes God from Mohammad, who has some strange ideas to say the least. He never really proves he was from God, either, just raised an army and conquered. Then there was a massive split into two factions after he died.<br /><br />I don't believe he was from God, surely you don't?Lucia Mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10485990994973953860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-40896779184473032622011-08-01T20:59:44.529+12:002011-08-01T20:59:44.529+12:00There is an absolute standard for what constitutes...<i>There is an absolute standard for what constitutes evil, and the Taliban do not have it.</i><br /><br />In which you blow your own argument out of the water. If there's a more God-fearing bunch than the Taleban, I've never heard of them.Psycho Milthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00779500926576047736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-42352647961580498272011-08-01T20:20:52.316+12:002011-08-01T20:20:52.316+12:00KG,
Those people whom you have met who did not k...KG, <br /><br />Those people whom you have met who did not know evil from good would have known the difference at some point earlier in their lives, and maybe since then have rediscovered it. There is very little that men do that God cannot forgive.<br /><br />There is an absolute standard for what constitutes evil, and the Taliban do not have it. I mean, their idea of heaven is where they get to have sex with virgins. Sex is only a foretaste of heaven, it's only necessary on earth as a means of bonding and procreation, there's no need for it in heaven at all. That one concept alone should throw the Taliban out of the running for having any sort of insight into evil.<br /><br />You asked before who gets to define evil - Jeremy is right, God does. God as in Yahweh, God His Son that came down to earth. That event split history in two so that we now number our years as to before He was born and after, to the point where God-haters have been trying to introduce BCE and CE instead.<br /><br />Jesus is the only religious figure in history whose coming was predicted, not just in the Hebrew scriptures, but in Greek, Roman, Persian and even Chinese writings. Only God could ensure that men knew He was coming. Mohammed can't boast of that.Lucia Mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10485990994973953860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-40232029602413657892011-08-01T19:55:00.817+12:002011-08-01T19:55:00.817+12:00I don't really disagree with either of you. Bu...I don't really disagree with either of you. But having heard all kinds of things described as 'evil" (the Taliban, for example put out a statement some time ago describing education for women and music in just those terms) it seems to me that there can never be an absolute standard for what constitutes evil.<br /><br />I certainly don't agree that everyone knows good from evil though. I've met a few people who genuinely didn't.KGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01940428991630766942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-1637711471902605292011-08-01T18:03:06.266+12:002011-08-01T18:03:06.266+12:00Belief in a creator doesn't make one a Christi...<i>Belief in a creator doesn't make one a Christian.</i><br /><br />True but it does open one up to the belief system that there is an authority higher than this world can provide.Jeremy Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05819630707494648769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-44051629843256199582011-08-01T17:28:08.112+12:002011-08-01T17:28:08.112+12:00And then the internal war begins where pride of th...And then the internal war begins where pride of the self struggles with the person who wants God has to then proceed on God's terms, not his own. God allows that war because the person has to use his will to choose God rather than being totally passive.Lucia Mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10485990994973953860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-54666066606466101912011-08-01T17:23:37.047+12:002011-08-01T17:23:37.047+12:00KG,
Every one knows good from evil - we are built...KG,<br /><br />Every one knows good from evil - we are built that way - by God. However every act of evil disfigures the soul and if not confessed, requires coping mechanisms. Typically denial and numbness, or inverting the sense of good and evil so that the sense itself all but disappears. Long years of training in evil will do that.<br /><br />Man by himself can never climb out of this hole. However, God loves each and every one of us as a Father and therefore does and will provide moments of grace where a real choice for or against Him can be made. These moments are increased if the person himself seeks the true God of the universe and is not content until he knows who He is.Lucia Mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10485990994973953860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-18629232014211011932011-08-01T14:49:31.674+12:002011-08-01T14:49:31.674+12:00Well, that's not much help to someone who isn&...Well, that's not much help to someone who isn't a Christian, is it?<br />Belief in a creator doesn't make one a Christian. <br />So the Christian definition of "evil" is meaningless to such a person.KGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01940428991630766942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-23896280344553598502011-08-01T13:30:02.482+12:002011-08-01T13:30:02.482+12:00Yahweh.Yahweh.Jeremy Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05819630707494648769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-83694905433341711732011-08-01T13:28:41.782+12:002011-08-01T13:28:41.782+12:00Allah, you say? Don't fancy that much.Allah, you say? Don't fancy that much.Psycho Milthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00779500926576047736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-12871038366756948062011-08-01T11:17:22.197+12:002011-08-01T11:17:22.197+12:00The I AM.The I AM.Jeremy Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05819630707494648769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38893560.post-39368108859975051022011-08-01T10:20:16.297+12:002011-08-01T10:20:16.297+12:00And who gets to define what's "evil"...And who gets to define what's "evil" Lucia Maria?KGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01940428991630766942noreply@blogger.com