Monday, March 21, 2011

Lucia What I think of "gay people"

The other day, Clint Heine of the Clint Heine and Friends blog launched a scurrilous attack on myself and this blog. When his first blog post was picked apart, he tried to make out that my reply to his false assertions was "frothing".

I really don't want to give him to much attention, as I think he enjoys it a little too much, however I do have to answer his accusation that I "hate gay people".

First off, I do my very best not to hate anyone. Every person has vices. My vices can be as dangerous to my soul as the unrepentant sex addict's vices can be to his. Vices that are not resisted tend to drown out any hope of redemption, yet that redemption nevertheless exists and is available to all who seek it. 

So, I think of the "gay person" as having sexual vices that they have succumbed to, that make it difficult for them to imagine any other way of being. I feel sad for them that this is the case, but also hopeful that God may work a miracle in their lives and maybe help them to hear His voice and take the opportunity of redemption when it is offered.

The unrepentant homosexual who is seeking to change the world into his own image so that his sexual desires are celebrated and victims are offered no matter who they are, I will oppose with every bone in my body. We are at war.  Just as in a war, you don't necessarily hate the opposing side, but will engage in an aggressive defence, because if the other side wins, you will be overwhelmed and worse, so it is in this war of ideas that has real consequences for this world, my children and our way of life.  To not fight is to give in to those consequences.  To say it's because I hate the other side is to deny those consequences.  It is to be blind and deaf and dumb,  and selfish, so that only your own desires and wants and needs are important and stuff everyone else.

Men are natural protectors.  When all is right in the world they channel that protective energy into their societies, their wives and their children.  When all is not right in the world, some will protect other men's rights to do what ever they want, in a perverse reverse of the protective instinct that should be directed towards women and children.  In doing so, they become predators, not protectors.

So we have the ultimate irony of a man (Clint) attacked a woman (me) for wanting a society in which men act like men, not narcissistic nancy boys that don't give a damn about anyone except for themselves and other men.  And so I have to become what is not natural to women, a fighter.  Which he objects to and attacks me over, rather than acting like a real man himself.

69 comment(s):

Lucia Maria said...

What is it with you cowards that will twitter, but not come out in the open and say what you think?

Lucia Maria said...

Found you.

Danyl said...

I don't know what percentage of the day (best not mention the night) you and Andrei spend obsessing about the thought of two men having sex, but it's many, many orders of magnitude more than a liberal sinner like myself devotes to the subject.

scrubone said...

A nasty and fact challenged tweet.

How surprising.

ZenTiger said...

Rubbish Danyl. This all started because Clint did a post attacking Lucia accusing her of supporting pederasts and pedophiles. It's obvious she doesn't.

scrubone said...

Danyl, I don't know what percentage of the day (best not mention the night) you spend obsessing about the thought of Catholics obsessing over two men having sex, but it's many, many orders of magnitude more than Catholics or protestants like myself devotes to the subject.

Robot Pie said...

Maybe it's because Boganette has better things to do than reply to this rubbish.

Andrei said...

It may surprise you Danyl but I don't give a toss what two consenting adults do with each other.

For someone who supposedly knows science you are incredibly dense when it comes to understanding that if people do not have children there is no future.

And the most important economic activity we can undertake is to ensure that there is another generation to follow us. Which is something we are not doing.

It was well understood in the years following WW2 and government policies were constructed to encourage families and the raising of children, which is why there was the so called baby boom.

Now the population is aging because we don't produce enough children, don't encourage families, except amongst the dysfunctional where we subsidize them.

To encourage the traditional family and to oppose those things which undermine it is not "homophobic", it is a matter of survival as a culture and civilization.

Redbaiter said...

Ugh.. just had a look at those twitter posts. Those people, steeped in moral relativism and other aspects of cultural Marxism, generate the same revulsion as cockroaches in the kitchen.

Lucia Maria said...

Danyl,

Just like Andrei, I do not actually think about what men do behind closed doors, neither do I think of what men and women do behind closed doors, neither do I watch anything of that nature on TV or movies (I avert my eyes).

Funny that it's the first thing you assume, that I must somehow be imagining all sorts of gross things and freaking out over them, therefore this post.

I have learned, over the years how to mentally separate such stuff. Call it discipline or willpower or whatever.

The war that I talk of is over issues .. the redefinition of marriage, for instance. Inflicting graphic sexual imagery on children. Normalisation of that which leads to eternal destruction of the body and the soul.

The pleasures of this world are fleeting, while as we are eternal beings. It would be cruel of me not to warn my fellow humans of where they could end up, and do everything in my power, such as it is, to try and avert the path they are on.

Lucia Maria said...

Redbaiter,

Yeah. Though, there is hope for each and every one of them.

Danyl said...

Let me put it like this.

The Church teaches that homosexuality is a grave sin. And so you 'warn people' against it. Constantly.

But the Church also teaches that pre-marital sex and divorce are grave sins. But you guys don't seem interested in warning people about them at all. There must be hundreds of posts on this site about the evils of homosexuality. Have you ever devoted a post to divorce?

After all, the divorce rate runs at about 18% of the population. The number of people in de-facto unions is about 25%. Compared to that the number of gay people is microscopic. Yet you're 'at war' with gay people.

Lucia Maria said...

First of all, I am not at war with gay people. I am at war with the advancement of certain ideas, such as gay marriage. It's where the battle lines are, therefore it's where the fight is. Divorce gets mentioned by me every once in a while, but it's not the current battle. When things are overwhelming, when everything is imploding, you don't scatter your forces - you choose what to spend your time on.

This is a Catholic blog, and as such we have had to respond to the crisis of abuse by certain priests. Turns out, most of the problem priests are homosexual. It's not like we are deliberately focusing on this issue, it just keeps popping up.

What's another example .. redefinition of marriage. Who wants to do that? Gay people?

Sex education rates a big mention here because a number of the bloggers here have children. So does the normalisation of homosexuality to children - because it affects them.

Get it?

Michael Wynd said...

Danyl,

Christians are not at war with the Gay community. If that is your view, then could I suggest that they started it as they fight to hide the dirty little secrets that lie at the heart of the gay lifestyle. Note that now it is claimed that being gay is something you are born with. This is a huge seachange for the movement. Using this, the gay lobby now claim rights along with disabled and ethnic groups. It means however that being gay is a form of disablement, an abnormal condition. It is as iof they have undermined the last 30years of activisim.
My church does preach and is very active about pre-marital sex and divorce and the spiritiual, emotional and personal costs that these entail. And it is right that we should because we owe our young people that much and that sex is not a casual thing. They have to be told that their purity is a precious thing that should not be given away too easily and that there are costs to sex outside marriage. The same equally applies to divorce. We treat it too casually.

Lucia Maria said...

And then there's the reason this post exists. If you follow the dots (can't give them to you right now, cooking dinner). Clint Heine takes exception to me wanting to know the identity of NZ paedophiles who are high up in a world wide ring of a site called boylover, and accuses me of hating gay people. Hence this post - responding to the current battle.

Lindsay Mitchell said...

"So, I think of the "gay person" as having sexual vices that they have succumbed to, that make it difficult for them to imagine any other way of being. I feel sad for them that this is the case, but also hopeful that God may work a miracle in their lives and maybe help them to hear His voice and take the opportunity of redemption when it is offered."

Do you Lucia Maria have "sexual vices" merely because of your orientation? Why can't you just allow other people to be who they are instead of overlaying sinfulness and proclivity? It is so mean. And quite ridiculous as well.

Andrei said...

The Church teaches that homosexuality is a grave sin. And so you 'warn people' against it. Constantly.

I think you will find Danyl that the majority if not all of posts involving Homosexuality on this blog are in the context of Gay Marriage or in some cases the use "reproductive technologies" to create "non traditional" families.

You will also find posts on contraception, particularly in the context of being promoted to children. This of course, to our way of thinking is promoting a sin which puts our very own children's immortal souls in peril.

I can tell you Danyl I supported the homosexual reform act because I do not believe it is the Governments place to try and legislate morality.

But conversely I do not believe its the Governments place to promote sexual immorality which it does. Or to fund the murder of infants in the womb which it does.

No fault divorce is an anaethema but there is not a politician in this country that wants to go near that one, in fact they avoid the abortion issue like the plague, even the so called Catholic ones, like Pilate washing his hands.

Lucia Maria said...

Lindsay,

No, I don't have sexual vices. I've only ever had sex with one man (my husband) and I don't do porn or masturbate.

However, as explained ad nauseum now, normalisation of homosexuality is the current battle now. And I was asked what I thought of gay people - the assumption being that I wanted to ban them. How you would ban what people do, I don't know, but that was what was thought of me.

The thing is with sex, is that it is very, very, very addictive. It's also life giving and bonding. And as such, the casual way we treat it has lead to an explosion of single women having children who have been abandoned by their lovers, children who are exposed to unnatural predators (ie the homosexual paedophiles that started this whole thing off) and a desire to reshape the fundamental building block of society for women and children - marriage - just so men who sleep with men and women who sleep with women can feel normal.

Lindsay Mitchell said...

Perhaps there are monogamous gays who don't do porn or masturbate too.

Lucia Maria said...

Lindsay, perhaps. So therefore you agree that porn and masturbation are sexual vices. You just can't include male-male sex in there or female-female sex.

Lucia Maria said...

Do you know, we Catholics have this cool thing called Confession. It's where you confess all your sins to God through a priest. And afterwards, it's as if you've never sinned - God "forgets" what you've done. That's the remedy for any person who has done things that they need to clean themselves of.

Lindsay Mitchell said...

No. I agree that you think they are. Really, I am just not that bothered by it all. Sex is one aspect of a person's life. But, if it is same-sex, you want to make it the defining one.

Lindsay Mitchell said...

"Confession. It's where you confess all your sins to God through a priest. And afterwards, it's as if you've never sinned - God "forgets" what you've done."

Sounds like the welfare state where you never have to live with the consequences of your own bad behaviour.

Lucia Maria said...

All sex outside of marriage is sinful, Lindsay. Be it through the viewing of porn, masturbation, adultery, experimenting with sex partners of either sex. Same-sex sex is not the defining one - it's just where the battle is right now. I talk about monogamous marriage alot, just not in posts recently, it's more in my roaming around on the blogosphere.

Lucia Maria said...

Sounds like the welfare state where you never have to live with the consequences of your own bad behaviour.

There are consequences. It takes time to free oneself of vices. Could be years of confessin the same things again and again. And then there's Purgatory, which is like Hell, but you get to leave. It's where you pay the price for the sins you committed while on earth until your soul is clean enough for Heaven. So not quite like the welfare state. Nice try, though.

Lindsay Mitchell said...

Purgatory - not quite Hotel California.

So I have to stop off there in transit to confess all of the sex I had outside marriage. It'll be crowded.

Lucia Maria said...

Also, sexual sins can lead to diseases that don't go away when you go to Confession. You confess sex outside marriage in which a child was conceived - the child doesn't vanish. The consequences of what you do here on earth still have to be dealt with as well, even if the sins in God's eyes are forgotten.

Lucia Maria said...

Lindsay,

All mortal sins (sexual sins fall into this category) need to be confessed before death. There are exceptions for those that don't believe, they get a last chance at death to choose God, but then there's a very long time in Purgatory, I would guess, depending on the level of culpability of the person, how much they knew what they were doing was wrong, etc. The safest thing is to do it before death - makes a huge difference. It frees you, it really does.

leftrightout said...

Here we are defining waht is "right and wrong" in sexual behaviour. In another post Lucia has spely out what (in here eyes) it menas to be a "conservative".

Two of the biggest icons in conservative circles are pat Robertson and Roanld Reagan, both of whom married pregnant women!

Then there's that other paragon of conservative morality, Newt Gingrich and hsi, what, 3 divorces?

There's no question at times of my life, partially driven by how passionately I felt about this country, that I worked far too hard and that things happened in my life that were not appropriate. And what I can tell you is that when I did things that were wrong, I wasn't trapped in situation ethics, I was doing things that were wrong, and yet, I was doing it. I found that I felt compelled to seek God's forgiveness.

That's right, Newt cheated, but its OK, he fessed upand asked god to forgive him.

Funny, but when I did the same, but only to one wife, I sought forgiveness from my wife and children, not god.

Humanists and rationalists have far better morals than the average god botherer.

Lindsay Mitchell said...

Lucia Maria, I am touched by your concern. But we seem to have gone full circle. Finally you talk about freedom. Most people want freedom, especially from prejudice and persecution, while they shuffle still on this mortal coil.

Lucia Maria said...

Lindsay, only the truth will ever set any one free.

Andrei said...

Sex is one aspect of a person's life. But, if it is same-sex, you want to make it the defining one.

No it is the Gay Lobby that wants to make it the defining one Lindsay.

In Church we couldn't care less if someone identifies Gay or what his Sins are, We have our own burdens of sin to worry about without worrying about those of others.

We never discuss the issue in Church at all, we discuss Sin as a general concept and as something, a sickness that applies to us all without exception.

The proper place for discussion of particular sins is between God, the penitent and Confessor.

And we lapse, fall back, we are a work in progress right up to the day we die.

Most people want freedom, especially from prejudice and persecution, while they shuffle still on this mortal coil.

And freedom they have Lindsay. Is it persecution of smokers to point out their behavior may lead to lung cancer?

Is it prejudice and persecution to the promiscuous that their choices may lead to nasty STDs with nasty or even fatal consequences?

If not why is it prejudice and persecution to point out that such behaviors may be placing your immortal soul in peril?

Lindsay Mitchell said...

We were discussing same sex orientation which of itself does not lead to nasty or fatal consequences.

Ackers said...

'No it is the Gay Lobby that wants to make it the defining one Lindsay.'

Quite simple really Andrei.

If I'm gay it pretty well defines me.

No?

Or would you rather I simply give up sex or whatever that urge might be?

I'd never ask you to make that particular sacrifice but then again I'm a tolerant person....capable of love.

All I see from you and Lucia Maria are a couple of catholic bigots completely incapable of seeing other peoples humanity because of your own fucked up sexuality and prejudices.

Quite sad.

Ackers said...

I mean lets call it for what it is. You both dribble on about sin and compassion and vice but really you are both completely clueless about your fellow human beings.

I pity your children.

Imagine if god help them they turned out to be gay!

Ackers said...

The irony is of course that those that follow your prescription are exactly the fucked up human beings that turn to the church, become priests and sexually abuse children.

Andrei said...

I'm Orthodox Ackers.

I don't care what you do with your sex life.

God has given you free will to choose and it is not my place or anybody else's to interfere with that.

I can tell you that homosexual activity is a sin and making that choice may have consequences but it is your choice entirely.

I have made and continue to make bad choices over other things which are also sins, you're not alone and we all (humanity) will face the judgement.

Heine said...

I have got exactly what I wanted from you Lucia Marie. A confession. Thank you for shooting yourself in the foot.

Danyl said...

I am at war with the advancement of certain ideas, such as gay marriage. It's where the battle lines are, therefore it's where the fight is. Divorce gets mentioned by me every once in a while, but it's not the current battle

That's the crux of it right there. By your own definition a plurality of straight people are grave sinners, but you've made an arbitrary decision that homosexuality is 'where the fight is', even though their numbers are far smaller than all the heterosexual fornicators. Well, that's bigotry. You're singling out a vulnerable minority and claiming they're a threat to our entire society. You claim that this isn't motivated by hatred - but that's exactly what hatred looks like.

By analogy, let's say the government announced it was going to stamp out religion in New Zealand, and it closed down all the Catholic Churches, all the Catholic schools, sacked Catholic public servants, confiscated businesses owned by Catholics, and so on - but left protestants, muslims, hindus ect untouched, arguing that Catholicism was 'where the battle lay', would you accept that as a reasonable argument?

ZenTiger said...

That's a flawed analogy Danyl.

Lucia specifically said she is not advocating to make homosexuality illegal, so you pretending the government is going communist is a hysterical reaction to what she actually said. You sound like Richard Dawkins.

What she is arguing against is the redefinition of marriage. That's not saying homosexuals cannot get jobs, live with whoever they want, go clubbing whenever they want and do what ever they want in the privacy of their bedrooms.

Is it bigotry if you argue that pederasts should not follow their natural urges, as Ackers seems to think? Or would you rather I simply give up sex or whatever that urge might be?

Would you be a bigot if you were inclined not to agree with a lobby arguing to lower the age of sexual consent from 18 to 16, or 16 to 15? Would you be a prude for arguing that it be raised to 18 where the relationship is one of power (such as a teacher)?

You haven't made a reasonable argument, so there is no reason to accept it.

ZenTiger said...

I have got exactly what I wanted from you Lucia Marie. A confession. Thank you for shooting yourself in the foot.

And you have confessed to be nothing more than a left wing zealot. You do a post calling her a pedophile, and supporter of pedophiles, so you can get her to say she thinks homosexuality is a sin, something she has always said in any event. The ends always justify the means with you lot don't they?

Lucia Maria said...

Lindsay,

The "orientation" is not sinful. The acts are. So a person who has urges, but never indulges in them or acts upon them never commits a sin.

Ackers,

You are a married man, are you not? You don't need to give up sex, you just need to stop committing adultery, whatever your urges are. Are you a man or an animal?

Heine,

It's like having a conversation with the village idiot.

Danyl,

You're a smart guy, try and get your head around what Zen has explained.

Danyl said...

What she is arguing against is the redefinition of marriage. That's not saying homosexuals cannot get jobs, live with whoever they want, go clubbing whenever they want and do what ever they want in the privacy of their bedrooms.

Okay, but that takes me back to my original point. Marriage has already been redefined away from the Catholic ideal, into one in which no-fault divorce is common, so much so that the amount of people getting divorced is much, much larger than the amount of people having gay sex. Lucyna doesn't worry about this because it's 'not where the battle is'. Why not?

Lucia Maria said...

I do worry about it, Danyl. My focus is on training both my boys to be chaste, so that when they find the woman they want to marry, they will be faithful to her. I have also counselled them to try and fall in love with a girl from an intact family, as those from separated families don't know how to make a marriage work.

I haven't blogged much about this because of lack of time over the last few years, but I do comment about it here and there in the blogosphere, as I said to Lindsay.

Heine said...

Lucia Marie, you and your values are right out of the stone ages. I feel sorry for your kids. Imagine them having to be taunted at school because they were brainwashed to believe that there are such things as second class citizens out there.
You all are moral statists. But please, continue with the denial.

Lucia Maria said...

Highly civilised societies are only ever possible because of sexual restraint. Take that away and civilisation goes into a death spiral.

Danyl said...

You sound like Richard Dawkins.

I love that this ZT regards this as a blood-curdling insult. Oh yeah? Well you sound like Hilaire Belloc! (Not really.)

My focus is on training both my boys to be chaste . . .

Oh, the thousands of dollars in therapists bills concealed in a single sentence.

I haven't blogged much about this because of lack of time over the last few years . . .

Haven't found the time? Isn't there a war on? Isn't the existence of marriage, and our very civilisation at stake? Or is that only under threat from a tiny minority of gay people who want to get married but impervious to the massive number of heterosexuals who divorce, remarry, cheat and enter de-facto relationships?

leftrightout said...

Haven't we come such a long way, that we can still talk about mythical places like purgatory and hell, neither of which can be proven to exist by any objective test and I don't seem to find in the NT.

No, we haven't come that far, we still have blue noses more interested in what other people do with their bits, rather than actually living a life in Christ, as they prophess.

lucia, since you are obviously not homosexual and therefore in no mortal danger, why does it bother you what others do? Surely god can punish them, while we can simply live and let live.

Is that so hard?

Lucia Maria said...

Danyl,

You seem to be getting confused. I said that I didn't post much about divorce because I haven't had the time. I've also said that I post on gay marriage, because that's where the battle is. That's where I've been putting my focus when I blog, as news items come up that need to be commented on.

Once gay marriage gets in, it basically changes marriage completely from being an institution designed to bind a man to his wife and children, to just something adults do because they feel like it, until they don't feel like it any more. Children will no longer have a structure that protects them. It's a process, by the time it gets to the gay marriage part, it's all mostly unravelled. The way you re-ravel it is to go back along the way, as well as reiterating what marriage is actually for.

That tiny minority of gay people who want to get married aren't being stopped from doing so, if they choose to marry a person of the opposite sex. However, if they want the rules changed for them, that's the point where we are opposed.

Lucia Maria said...

LRO,

If I could show you where in the NT purgatory and hell are, would you then believe they exist?

Lucia Maria said...

LRO,

lucia, since you are obviously not homosexual and therefore in no mortal danger, why does it bother you what others do? Surely god can punish them, while we can simply live and let live.

Do you not care if people you know are harming themselves? What type of a person says nothing, or worse, approves if people around them are self-destructing? What would you think of me if I knew the road you were on would lead you over the edge of a cliff and into death, but said, yes the road ahead is safe, happy travels?

leftrightout said...

Well, no because I thought you were Catholic, not Jewish and I don't know any catholics who adhere to all the rules and regs of the OT.

A perfect example is Leviticus, where most xians seem to find the prohibition on homosexuality whilst they ignore virtually every other rule therein.

Lucia Maria said...

I thought we were talking about the NT. How did the OT come into it?

leftrightout said...

Sorry lucia, seeing things that are not there. Maybe I'm about to have a religious experience. Or maybe just low blood sugar. :-)

Fire away, but best if you can find references external to the bible as well. And no, not bible commentaries, idependent sources.

Boganette said...

I guess I'm not allowed to say fuckwit then. I'll rephrase - Thanks for the increased traffic to my Twitter and blog account! Already met heaps of cool people who loathe wingnuts as much as I do.

I'll keep hiding in plain sight on my very public Twitter account just for you Lucia.

Lucia Maria said...

LRO,

From my favourite Catholic Scripture reference site: Purgatory and Hell.

I'm not sure what you mean by references external to the Bible, if the point is finding the references in the NT. Not everyone is going to look at the references and agree that they mean purgatory and hell.

I have a you-tube clip of a guy who claimed he visited hell, makes for some scary viewing: 23 minutes in Hell.

It's very human to not want to believe in this stuff, so I don't expect it to convince you at all. I'm only offering it because you asked.

Lucia Maria said...

Looks like 23 minutes in hell has been pulled by You-Tube. Wierd, as it didn't have anything objectionable in it - except for the whole idea of hell, that is.

Redbaiter said...

"Already met heaps of cool people who loathe wingnuts as much as I do."

Yeah, I saw those human cockroaches.

Psycho Milt said...

Yeah, I saw those human cockroaches.

"They had to be treated like tuberculosis bacilli, from which a healthy body could be infected."

Boganette said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Boganette said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
I.M Fletcher said...

Lucia Marie, you and your values are right out of the stone ages. I feel sorry for your kids

Strange then that those who follow these values have better outcomes in almost every area of society. Mapping America is a site that takes freely available statistics and maps/graphs them.

The newest map is in regards to unmarried mothers. It shows that 18% of girls who regularly attend church and have an intact family are likely to be unwed mothers, contrasted with 40% of girls being unwed mothers who never attend church and have a family that is not intact.

So kids who attend church regularly and are part of an intact family have better outcomes with regard to drugs, crime, education, divorce, unmarried mothers, behaviour problems etc etc - the list goes on - every area of life they do better.

So yeh - our 'stoneage' morals have value after all.

Redbaiter said...

Have you seen the latest litany of lies and smears from that cowardly maggot Heine? What a revolting example of internet lowlife he really is.

Lucia Maria said...

Red,

Yes. At least he's put my words up his blog so that anyone reading might at least have a chance of understanding what I've written rather than his interpretation.

Redbaiter said...

Yeah, "interpretation" is the kindest word.

In reality its utterly shameless misrepresentation. The guy is such a pathological liar its gobsmacking.

....and not a skerrick of shame.

Heine said...

I put up the all the words, as Lucia Marie has typed them so the people that read could see my point and your point beside each other. Mind you, you could have farted and it would have got more street cred than anything Redbaiter has ever written. Calling me a liar is pretty sad when I have only stated my opinion.

I guess you Moral Statists don't like being told the truth. Red especially hates being called out on his ideological weaknesses.

Redbaiter said...

Clint, you have asserted that you know what I believe in and think, and you have widely disseminated these lies without any reference to them being your opinion.

You are insane, a liar and for your gross unashamed deceit in broadcasting a totally perverted distortion of my own views, a coward.

All of this is made obvious by your own work, and not anything I have done.

Redbaiter said...

As for being "called out", or, as in one of your worst exaggerations, "challenged", you have done no such thing.

Posting totally unwarranted lies and smears is no intellectual challenge to the subject party. It is written off as the crude and pointless work of a small minded and repellent coward who clearly does not have any real argument.

Where is the challenge in weak falsehoods?

There isn't one.

Evergreen said...

God bless you Lucia. Christ lives, Christ reigns.

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