Apparently the display of the banner at the left is a violation of the US Constitution. But the very same document protects this
(WARNING: do not click on the above link without your barf bag handy. Readers with weak hearts are advised to use extreme caution when following it).
I wonder if this is what the founding fathers really had in mind when they were framing it?
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ReplyDeleteA ndrei, once again, before commenting on matters to do with the US constitution, do try to get a grip on it and on reality.
ReplyDeleteThe prayer is NOT illegal, either under the US consitution or any other US alw.
What IS illegal is prayer in state schools. That was the basis of the complaint and the judgement.
Had the banner omitted the words "Our hevenly father" and "amen" there would have been no case. Had the banner been displayed in a home, a church, a private bsiness, etc, there would be no case.
What is most instructive is the way the supporters of the banner have responded. It is as though none of them had read it, or if they had, they fail to understand it.
Jessica Ahlquist has been abused, threatned with rape and murder, all in the name of the "Prince of Peace".
She has been called "an evil little thing" by State rep Peter Polombo.
Don't you think it odd that when xtians lose a court battle they respond with violence, both threatened and actual?
And don't you think thet the school board would do better educating children rather than pissing more taxpayer $ up against the wall in appealing this deision? It is an appeal they cannot win, the law is clear.
Now, be a good boy and go read up the US constitution, and maybe also take a look at The Treaty of Tripoli. And finally, take a look at the christian love being shown to Jessica at http://jessicaahlquist.com/christian-love/
"The God who gave us life gave us liberty at the same time" and asked ‘Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are of God?’"
ReplyDeleteThomas Jefferson
See LRO that particular banner has been there for 50 years and nobody probably gave it a second thought until an exceptionally silly little girl decided to make it an issue.
It's the way of the world now foolish mediocre people enforce their views on the majority my having little tantys and getting pandered to and fifteen minutes of fame
Andrei, many quotes are falsely attributed to Jefferson, or are completely removed from context. Jefferson DID say "...those who live by mystery & charlatanerie, fearing you would render them useless by simplifying the Christian philosophy, the most sublime & benevolent, but most perverted system that ever shone on man, endeavored to crush your well earnt, & well deserved fame." - Thomas Jefferson to Joseph Priestley, Washington, March 21, 1801[1]
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you address the guts of the argument? That the prayer banner IS illegal, no matter how many years it has been there.
Religious conservatives seem to like clinging to things that have "history" or "tradition" behind them, but only when it serves their purposes. They bare quite happy to trample on the history and traditioon of others as in the US Pledge of Allegiance.
And nice to see yolur not above showing xtian charity to those who dare stand up against a theocracy.
Neither the US or NZ are majoritarian systems, we both ahve representative democracy. But maybe majoritarian rule would be good - the way NZ is changing, in 20 years the majority could vote to outlaw religion and execute its followers. Still like majoritarianism then?
You know LRO if it is "illegal" it is only because a Judge has decided that it is so.
ReplyDeleteUntil the late 1960s everybody in the USA would have been astounded by such an inane idea but since then Judges have been finding things in the constitution that would have the founding fathers reeling in astonishment - basically the elites of the USA have gone insane - I put it down to the drugs they took in the sixties myself.
Anyway you should watch "Why We Fight" the famous movies put out by the US Armed Forces in WW2 and made my Frank Capra - a great American who was actually born in Sicily.
And in those movies WW2 is almost cast as a holy war - God is often referenced - it is assumed everybody is Christian or Jewish and Government and Military officials utter prayers and so forth.....
You know LRO if it is "illegal" it is only because a Judge has decided that it is so.
ReplyDeleteWhich is as it should be under Article 3, Section 1 of the US constitution.
Until the late 1960s everybody in the USA would have been astounded by such an inane idea but since then Judges have been finding things in the constitution that would have the founding fathers reeling in astonishment - basically the elites of the USA have gone insane
yes, and no doubt "everybody" was happy that until the 1950's in many US states only liars or christians could give evidence in court cases. But that's changed, too, atheists, hindus, bhuddists, even Wiccans can now give evidence.
And don't forget, as far as I can tell, everyone of those judges has come from a "judeo-christian" background, everyone of them was a believer and yet they still made decisions based not on religious belief but on law.
No US Congress has passed laws to overturn the judges' rulings, either.
And in those movies WW2 is almost cast as a holy war - God is often referenced - it is assumed everybody is Christian or Jewish and Government and Military officials utter prayers and so forth.....
I prefer my history from historical sources, not movies, but keep in mind that just about every Italian soldier was a Roman Catholic, Mussolini did a deal with the Pope and just about every German soldier was a Lutheran, catholic or from some other christian sect. And they all prayed to their god, and their priests blessed them.
read "Mein Kampf" and note Hitler's faith in god.
If Hitler held any religious opinion, LRO, it was a form of Neo Paganism based on Germanic folklore
ReplyDeleteAs for Mussolini he was an avowed Atheist whose religious opinion was very similar to your own.
As for "Why we Fight" that is a historical source being as it is a series of documentary/propaganda films made contemporary with the time.
And indeed the anti church rantings of both Mussolini and Hitler in public and filmed provided good fodder for these movies as was News reel footage of Church Desecration in Germany in the immediate pre war years by Nazi thugs and the arrest and imprisonment of Priests and Pastors by the Nazi regime during the same era.
LRO, you really do have a very skewed version of history :)
ReplyDeleteI so, so wish we had such a thing as a time machine - Liberals would get the shock of their lives, I am sure; especially Democrats in America who cry racist at every thing the Republicans do, but who were the ones who held on to slavery in the South as long as they could and didn't want to give it up.
It seems history is always being re-written by those who cannot face what actually happened; they'd rather create a fiction that allows them to live with themselves.
It is sad that people can talk about the Nazi regime as one started by a Christian.
ReplyDeleteSad, because the way Hitler forced the church to his political will is well documented, as well as what he did to those who insisted on preaching the Gospel instead.
So while "just about every German soldier was a Lutheran, catholic or from some other christian sect", those sects were not at that time Christian - they were dominated by the Nazi party.
Go read a book on Dietrich Bonhoeffer, you might learn something.