I've been so busy working, I'm only partially aware of the crisis in Napier. I basically am ignorant of all the key points (which qualifies me to blog about this), except one that I heard in passing from others at work - that a dead man remains on the property.
That they haven't figured out a way of retrieving this body angers me. I'm sure they have the reasons, and I don't particularly want to criticise the people that are in the midst of the crisis, I'm just reporting my feelings.
My feelings say get a tank or a LAV in there as a shield, and retrieve this man and return him to his family. Now. If the shooter cannot let them recover the fallen, he has little sympathy from me. Time to bring it on and end this.
That's what my feelings say.
UPDATE 6PM NEWS: Body just recovered. Now that wasn't so hard, was it???? [And I don't mean that literally]
That they haven't figured out a way of retrieving this body angers me. I'm sure they have the reasons, and I don't particularly want to criticise the people that are in the midst of the crisis, I'm just reporting my feelings.
My feelings say get a tank or a LAV in there as a shield, and retrieve this man and return him to his family. Now. If the shooter cannot let them recover the fallen, he has little sympathy from me. Time to bring it on and end this.
That's what my feelings say.
UPDATE 6PM NEWS: Body just recovered. Now that wasn't so hard, was it???? [And I don't mean that literally]
Good evening Zen.
ReplyDeleteI'm just so bloody angry about this whole fiasco. And there is no excuse whatsoever for leaving an officer down because rules state the area must be secured first.
None.
Just offhand I can think of a couple of ways they could have retrieved their colleague, (admittedly at some risk, but risk is what they're paid for) and to hear police officers state that they left him there when they weren't sure if he was alive or dead is simply unbelievable.
Contempt is too mild a word for what I feel about the NZ Police right now.
And these are the people we're supposed to rely on to protect us?
ReplyDeleteyeah right.
Greetings from the damp, wet cold winterless North.
ReplyDeleteI was hoping for a change from the police post-election.
I am somewhat disappointed.
And that is before we get into the Brash emails business.
Evening all.
ReplyDeleteI'm doing my best to wait for the facts KG, but I agree with you at this point. No matter how I process this information, I still haven't been able to come up with a good reason for such fundamental disrespect for their fallen.
Some grunts must be pretty p*ssed off with management right about now.
I totally agree. Leaving the man there, whether he is dead or not, for this amount of time is absolutely reprehensible.
ReplyDeleteJust heard on the radio - body recovered.
ReplyDeleteNow that wasn't so f*cken hard was it?
Good evening Lucyna. We really have reached the point where health and safety and the lawyers are more important than esprit de corps and common humanity.
ReplyDeletePerhaps the police should leave this kind of thing to the Army and simply do what they do best--aim radar guns at motorists.
What foul weather we have here right now! One cat is out mousing, because he's ginger and a maniac...Alfie is very sensibly curled up in front of the fire.
I've seen my beloved Gecko walk into the middle of a dangerous riot at night to treat a stab victim while the police stayed hole up behind the barbed wire at the police station because it was "too dangerous".
ReplyDeleteWe, the people need to reclaim the right to behave as dignified human beings again.
Evening Lucyna + Zen.
ReplyDeleteI am also disgusted that they can leave their colleague lying on the ground for so long, it beggars belief!
They have not learned ANYTHING from the last killing.
ReplyDeleteANY routine or 'low-threat' operation can turn to custard instantly.
Yet still they go about unarmed!
Unbelievable!
KG: Those manic Gingers!
ReplyDeleteOswald, I was also thinking of the dairy owner who was left to bleed to death because they couldn't tell if the shop had bad guys in - in spite of multiple 111 calls from people inside the shop begging for an ambulance.
What a load of absolute rubbish!
ReplyDeleteMy mate is in the armed-defenders and he was at the pub tonight, explaining everything.
The Police policy of safety first is entirely the correct one to take, given you have one corpse, and you don’t want another.
This is exactly the same policy as followed by surf-life savers every summer (take it from me)
You can not risk making more victims, and endangering more police from this motivated, trained and proven homicidal killer and his defensive 'position'.
I can’t believe I’m reading this, from you guys.
This is nothing to do with PC – this is just common sense.
The ‘mists of war’ are easy to look upon in time and given 20/20 comfortable lounge-chair theatre viewing spots you have.
Let me take you to a property and front-garden and I’ll give you 10 seconds to get the 20 metres to the body in open sight of me, when I’m holed-up with a semi-automatic weapon.
How would you get on?
Dead!
That's what.
Put you own son in the same position for your principals - not mine.
You guys are losing the plot.
See ya.
Paul.
"Let me take you to a property and front-garden and I’ll give you 10 seconds to get the 20 metres to the body in open sight of me, when I’m holed-up with a semi-automatic weapon."
ReplyDeleteNow who's playing 'armchair commando'
Ever occur to you some of the ones you slag off may have actually been there?
And it's Armed OFFENDERS...
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ReplyDeleteOh well, Paul...just so long as your mate down at the pub explained it all to you, that's ok then..
ReplyDelete"Let me take you to a property and front-garden and I’ll give you 10 seconds to get the 20 metres to the body in open sight of me, when I’m holed-up with a semi-automatic weapon."
Tell you what, sonny I may not do it in your arbitrary ten seconds, but I would get to the downed man and although I'm saying that from the comfort of a swivel chair right now, I and my comrades have done exactly that in the teeth of mortar and small-arms fire.We did that not because the health and safety dweebs "allowed" it, not because we had a death-wish, but because we wouldn't have been able to live with ourselves if we hadn't.
That story is repeated again and again by soldiers all over the world and by not a few police officers, ambulancemen and nurses as well. And civilians.
You know why? Because some people have a sense of personal pride and integrity and the guts to realise that doing the right thing won't always be either easy OR safe.
So take your mate from down the pub, take your snivelling carcass away somewhere and have a drink, while you console yourselves that you may lack integrity, but hey..you're alive.
As though that could possibly be any consolation to a poor,faithless and sensible person such as you.
heh..Gecko's mad ginger cat just came flying in through the cat door, got a brisk towel down, refueled and raced out again.
ReplyDeleteOh, to have that much energy!
I booked a hotel for two days at the end of the month today- in Napier (this has been planed for some time)
ReplyDeleteOur first weekend away without kids in four or five years!
:-) Good for you two Os! Here's hoping you have a great couple of days. And given your workload,you both deserve it.
ReplyDeletePaul, are you saying it is impossible to achieve this?
ReplyDeleteHang on, they did achieve this.
You say they shouldn't do this?
Oh, hang on, they went in and did it.
KG has obviously been reading too many Commando comics as a kid, or simply suffering ‘flash-backs’ and needs some professional care (the later probably).
ReplyDeleteAs usual around here he attacks the man, by again employing that derogatory term you guys love to use ‘son’.
The last I heard the guy inside the house was having conversations with his dead brother – so clearly he’s deranged.
They retrieved the body when it was safe to do, the police had the equipment (via the army) and importantly, so it didn’t endanger another officer.
They negated the risk.
Simple really.
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ReplyDeleteYou poor little man. It's not unusual for those who know deep down they're gutless and dependant on others to keep them safe, to ridicule and denigrate that which makes their safety possible.
ReplyDeleteAny psychiatrist will tell you that it's easier for them to do that than face their own inadequacies....
But that's ok--we get used to hearing the puling and whining from the sheep when the sheepdog nips at their heels. :-)
I sleep well knowing I can keep myself and my loved ones safe--who keeps you and yours safe, little man?
And of course I attacked the man (if 'man' isn't too strong a word here).
ReplyDeleteWould you expect to make asinine, uninformed comments and escape without criticism?
They retrieved the body when it was safe to do, the police had the equipment (via the army) and importantly, so it didn’t endanger another officer.
ReplyDeleteThey negated the risk.
Simple really.
Not so simple Paul. I would think there was risk involved no matter what they did. You don't need to trivialize the retrieval operation to try to make a point.
And the point you make ends up being irrelevant, as per my previous comment.
I suggested this risky, but important operation was worth doing on many levels. I was clear in stating I didn't have all the facts, and that this was my *feelings* on the matter. Read my post carefully again.
Your own comments imply you don't give a toss that their man was left out for, what 24 hours or so, possibly some of that time alive and dying?
I was, with my limited information available (ie none) still confident that there was some way to retrieve the body and minimise risk.
They proved this last night.
The fact they did it, with some element of risk means that they were probably as keen to do it as I felt it worth doing - because all the reasons for risking a life over a dead body, still apply whether they take 4 hours, 12 hours, 24 hours, 36 hours or a week.
The only thing we therefore have left to quibble on is how much time they took to prepare this operation, how much time it took to marshal resources, approve a plan and execute.
You worry about us "playing the man" and yet you can't believe people can have *feelings* on this matter, and think that with the right plan, the right equipment, and most importantly, the right will, retrieval is possible.
You denigrate us for believing this, and yet your whole argument that it's just too hard or dangerous to attempt is obviously incorrect - it was done.
We can only quibble about the time to prepare and execute the plan, not that we felt it was an important thing to do, and that it could be done.
And you seem to revert to attacking the man yourself, with your ill-informed comments to KG.
Tell me, are you going to say of the men who went in there and retrieved the body, when years later they comment on another crisis:
Those guys obviously been reading too many Commando comics as a kid, or simply suffering ‘flash-backs’ and needs some professional care (the later probably).
How insulting can you get?
Heh, heh, "playing the man without the ball" or "attacking the man". C'mon you fullas.The NZ cops could only do what is in the book. Anything ouside of that is, er ... dangerous.Been in plenty situations with mass casualties (aka 'mini' massacres,mostly gun, axe, machete)on too many occasions to remember. No exactly what you talking about KG. Never been the gung-ho type. Simple sense of duty.
ReplyDeleteNo wonder then that soldiers in the US army were complaining about the atheist soldier in their ranks. As is evidenced above, if one of them were injured, the atheist would probably leave them well alone till it was safe to do so. For those who believe, a quick call to your Guardian Angel interspersed with Hail Mary's and off you go.Served me well for more than 10 years.
p.s.Anybody catch the doco. on TV1 on Monday showing Johannesburg?
Ha! Mzala, sounds like the SAPF?
ReplyDeleteKG: We worked alongside them. Most of the time went in alone, unarmed. Townships were aflame during the 80's. That's the folly of youth they say. But then again, that's another extreme ay? Sounds like the call for NZ cops to be armed will up a decibel or 3.Of concern though, some of us have seen this trend before.Clock is ticking in NZ.
ReplyDeleteAh, I see. I was in the Caprivi Strip and worked with some S.A. Recces.
ReplyDeleteI'd love to go back to the Delta someday..
If you operated in the townships during those times Mzala, you're a braver man than I.
Hamba Gashle.