Tuesday, January 3, 2012

Andrei Wouldn't most people do what Rick Santorum did?

The video below is, well to my mind bizarre, it has caused a fluster and so it should.

But what I don't get is why anybody should think taking a dead child home before giving him, in this case, a funeral is in anyway strange.

Aren't babies people too? Shouldn't they be mourned?

The baby's name was Gabriel Santorum.

16 comment(s):

Lucia Maria said...

I like that NRO editor.

Someone, I think it was Michael D. O'Brien, said that Fox News is a propaganda arm of the US Government, and from what the Fox guy said, this looks right.

homepaddock said...

I presume "play with" the baby is the commentator's term and not what the family did.

Taking a dead baby home could be a healthy way to deal with the death and start the grieving process. That is how the dead used to be treated, and still are in some cultures.

Andrei said...

"play with" the baby is utterly offensive.

No they and their older children spent some time with their son and younger brother getting to know him in the very short time they had.

A Priest was there, he said Mass.

We, thank the Lord, did not face this but if we had it would be about how I'd have done it.

You, I know Ele, had your own grief. I'm sorry and my heart goes out to you.

I.M Fletcher said...

Good on the NRO guy for defending Santorum. Lucia, actually, Fox News is about the only conservative TV news in the US. Obama has been critical of them, and even refused once to start a press conference with them there (until all the other networks complained, and he had to).

So, I don't think Fox is any kind of arm of the US Govt (that would be MSNBC).

I.M Fletcher said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
I.M Fletcher said...

ps, for anyone interested, there is a film you can watch online called '5 Hours With Raja', about a New Zealand couple who discover they are pregnant with their second child, but that it will be born with a birth defect which leaves the baby half a brain. Rather than abort the child, she decides to give birth to it. The baby lives 5 hours and they and all of their family have a chance to meet it and hello and goodbye.

Incredible story, really. Being that it takes place here in NZ, I wonder why we've never heard of it? The video is on the Al Jazeera website HERE

This intimate and deeply moving film follows the brave journey of Claudia and Amit, two young New Zealand parents who decide to carry their unborn baby to full term despite a diagnosis of a fatal birth defect.

Having digested the news that their unborn baby will be severely brain damaged with no chance of survival, Anna McKessar's film explores the profound impact that baby Raja has on Claudia and her family.

The first hand narration leads us through the heartbreaking chain of events, from the diagnosis through to Raja's final moments and beyond.

As Claudia prepares for the inevitable loss of her baby, she shares her inner feelings but her spirited and defiant character ensures the film is never overly sentimental.

This captivating film about love and loss hits hard but leaves viewers feeling curiously enlightened.


They too, take the baby home for a while as part of the mourning process.

Psycho Milt said...

It does seem an odd thing for him to ridicule. It took me a few minutes to remember that we didn't actually bring our dead daughter home from the hospital - I have plenty of memories of her body at home with us and we have photos and so on, but she was already in her box (without the lid on) so must have arrived there from the funeral director's rather than from the hospital. But my first reaction was to think of course they took their dead daughter home and told their kids about her and gave her a proper funeral, it's what human beings do. Maybe this guy thinks he'd just ask the hospital staff to biff his daughter's corpse in the incinerator after he'd left, but if he does he ain't the normal one.

That said, the story of a couple taking their severely deformed baby to full term so they could spend five hours watching it die strikes me as anything but heartwarming.

ZenTiger said...

It's not really a heartwarming story though PM. Why would anyone expect it to be?

It's a story of pain and tragedy, and an expression of humanity, however that appears to others.

leftrightout said...

Would that be the same Rick Santorum who wants to outlaw contraception?

Would that be the same Rick Santorum who wants to outlaw abortion, no matter what the need? Raped? No abortion. Going to die? No abortion.

That's Rick Santorum's "values".

Except, of course, when its his own wife who will die without an abortion. THEN, its all OK.

Just one more right wing religious nutbar fundie whose values apply to everyone except himself.

Lucia Maria said...

LRO,

Contraception should be outlawed. It turns women into sexual playthings that can be discarded when something younger and prettier comes along. It takes away women's power to withhold sex unless the man says "I do". And it allows men to stay at a level of stunted development where they never have to grow up.

As for women needed an abortion or they will die? This situation is very rare and someone like Rick would not be against treatment that would save the woman's life.

ZenTiger said...

LRO claims:

Except, of course, when its his own wife who will die without an abortion. THEN, its all OK.

Just one more right wing religious nutbar fundie whose values apply to everyone except himself.


The truth is actually different:

The childbirth in 1996 was a source of terrible heartbreak -- the couple were told by doctors early in the pregnancy that the baby Karen was carrying had a fatal defect and would survive only for a short time outside the womb. According to Karen Santorum's book, ''Letters to Gabriel: The True Story of Gabriel Michael Santorum,'' she later developed a life-threatening intrauterine infection and a fever that reached nearly 105 degrees. She went into labor when she was 20 weeks pregnant. After resisting at first, she allowed doctors to give her the drug Pitocin to speed the birth. Gabriel lived just two hours.

Just one more left wing atheistic nutbar fundie who will lie to advance their bigoted hatred against Christians.

James said...

Lucia....do what you will with your body and how you run it but keep your creepy Catholic Soul-socialist hands off of everyone elses.

leftrightout said...

After resisting at first, she allowed doctors to give her the drug Pitocin to speed the birth.

Abortion by any other name, is still abortion. 20 weeks is too soon for a viable birth, you know it, I know it and Santorum KNOWS his wife had a partial birth abortion.

leftrightout said...

This situation is very rare and someone like Rick would not be against treatment that would save the woman's life.

Then you don't know Santorum.

Here, in his own words.

http://youtu.be/HtHkDDqexHs

And of course, you are also opposed to abortion, even to save a mother's life, aren't you. It's waht the Pope says, so you gotta agree.

ZenTiger said...

LRO, you are far too selective with your comments, and too quick to believe the people that look for the negative interpretations.

Firstly, that short excerpt is in relation to abortions of rape victims and incest. He believes that the child should not pay for other people's crimes (ie the rapist's crimes).

Secondly, he is against abortion and thinks it is a crime, but not to the point of killing the mother.

Seems to me he takes the Catholic approach, which permits the mother to be saved, but that doesn't imply you allow abortions at the drop of a hat - the procedure has to have the purpose of saving the mother, not the purpose of killing the child.

Thirdly, his wife appears to have gone into labour prematurely following a risky operation they tried to SAVE the baby who had a defect and was certainly going to die.

Also, you characterized the process as a "partial birth abortion". It was not that at all. The baby was born live and lived a few hours. They tried to save it, rather than taking the easy way out. They walked the walk and you and others (boy the internet is filled with quite a few angry people) try to twist this to suit your own ends.

Please don't continue that on this blog. Use your own to promote this rubbish.

Santorum has also been accused of wanting to ban contraception (he obviously reads our blog every day and most liberals in NZ rightly fear the huge political influence we wield over Key, Shearer and Santorum). Here's where he confirms though that it is a personal issue, and he will not ban it: Rick on Contraception

ZenTiger said...

Andrei, you said it was bizarre taking the baby home. After researching this and hearing his reasons in his own words and some extracts from his wife's book (haven't found the whole thing online yet though), it seems quite sensible now, from what I could make out.

The baby died at 3am and rather than leave it at the hospital, or themselves continuing to wait at the hospital, they took it home and rang the funeral director from home the next day and he came around for the baby.

They say it also helped them in their grieving process, and what they did doesn't sound so unreasonable to me in that context.

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