Recently, many of us thrashed out the issue of a 9 year old, pregnant by rape, having her 16 week pre-born twins aborted. My post on Child Mothers was probably about 20% of what I actually wrote about the topic. A bit more was over at M and M, and another big chunk of it here at the Hand Mirror. After a very long conversation on that thread, this is how Deborah summed up my argument:
Y'know, I'm not sure it's worth arguing with ZenTiger. [He] has a set worldview, that women are worth less than fetuses, and that's all there is to it.
Rubbish, of course. My reply is on that link.
Even worse was the "logic" by Natalia that if I was against abortion of a rape victim, then I *therefore* support forced impregnation (rape)...that deserves a full post in reply, but as I'm probably the only one who might care that I've been accused of being pro-rape, it can wait until mid winter when it's cold, it's dark, there's nothing worth watching on TV (is there ever?) and people are cruising the blogs prepared to read anything to alleviate their ennui. Hah!
Given Deborah had a turn at summing up my argument, I did the same at the end of that thread. Part of that summary:
I have attempted to argue on the basis that such a life is not worthless, and that if it is worth less, we must at least wonder if the mother herself thinks they are worth anything.
I was speaking of the twins of course, and wondering if the mother was ever asked what she felt about an abortion. That was never reported. It seemed to me such a thought a mother could want a child of rape, could acknowledge that this was another innocent life caught in the horror of the situation, was the last thing the folks on the Hand Mirror (and others) wanted to entertain. Rule One - a fetus cannot be acknowledged as having any right to live. Rule Two - The wishes of the mother would not differ from their own preferences.
But maybe I misunderstood, just as Deborah and others so clearly have misunderstood me?
So here's another chance to clear up any confusion. A 13 year old is pregnant by rape and abuse from her father. She doesn't want an abortion, but it may be forced upon her anyway. This time we are talking of pre-born at 20 weeks of development, not 16 weeks. The risks for a normal pregnancy at age 13 are unlikely to be much different from an older teen, with access to good medical care. At the least, it would be fair to say the risk factor must be greatly reduced compared to the risk factors the 9 year old faced. The lines are blurrier.
If a forced abortion goes ahead against the wishes of the mother, and the Doctors are Catholic, they will be automatically excommunicated as is the current Church doctrine. I hope the local Bishop is as vocal as the last in affirming this point, and it will be interesting to see how the media take it.
So far, it's been very, very, quiet.
So quiet, I'm unable to find much other than articles pointing back to life site news. It's like a media shutdown. Is the story bogus, or has some liberal ideological viewpoint been threatened?
And again, my thoughts are with the child mother. I hope things go well for her, now that she is free from ongoing abuse.
Related Link: Forced Abortions - What's the excuse now?
Y'know, I'm not sure it's worth arguing with ZenTiger. [He] has a set worldview, that women are worth less than fetuses, and that's all there is to it.
Rubbish, of course. My reply is on that link.
Even worse was the "logic" by Natalia that if I was against abortion of a rape victim, then I *therefore* support forced impregnation (rape)...that deserves a full post in reply, but as I'm probably the only one who might care that I've been accused of being pro-rape, it can wait until mid winter when it's cold, it's dark, there's nothing worth watching on TV (is there ever?) and people are cruising the blogs prepared to read anything to alleviate their ennui. Hah!
Given Deborah had a turn at summing up my argument, I did the same at the end of that thread. Part of that summary:
I have attempted to argue on the basis that such a life is not worthless, and that if it is worth less, we must at least wonder if the mother herself thinks they are worth anything.
I was speaking of the twins of course, and wondering if the mother was ever asked what she felt about an abortion. That was never reported. It seemed to me such a thought a mother could want a child of rape, could acknowledge that this was another innocent life caught in the horror of the situation, was the last thing the folks on the Hand Mirror (and others) wanted to entertain. Rule One - a fetus cannot be acknowledged as having any right to live. Rule Two - The wishes of the mother would not differ from their own preferences.
But maybe I misunderstood, just as Deborah and others so clearly have misunderstood me?
So here's another chance to clear up any confusion. A 13 year old is pregnant by rape and abuse from her father. She doesn't want an abortion, but it may be forced upon her anyway. This time we are talking of pre-born at 20 weeks of development, not 16 weeks. The risks for a normal pregnancy at age 13 are unlikely to be much different from an older teen, with access to good medical care. At the least, it would be fair to say the risk factor must be greatly reduced compared to the risk factors the 9 year old faced. The lines are blurrier.
If a forced abortion goes ahead against the wishes of the mother, and the Doctors are Catholic, they will be automatically excommunicated as is the current Church doctrine. I hope the local Bishop is as vocal as the last in affirming this point, and it will be interesting to see how the media take it.
So far, it's been very, very, quiet.
So quiet, I'm unable to find much other than articles pointing back to life site news. It's like a media shutdown. Is the story bogus, or has some liberal ideological viewpoint been threatened?
And again, my thoughts are with the child mother. I hope things go well for her, now that she is free from ongoing abuse.
Related Link: Forced Abortions - What's the excuse now?
Good case to highlight! Of massive concern is also the actions of the rape prosecutor - what authority does prosecutor Bruno Teixeira have to order medical actions of any sort for the rape victim??? Especially when the social services case worker for the girl does not want an abortion, and nor does the girl!
ReplyDeleteA good case for an intervention to protect the girl and her child.
Social liberals will always claim it is the right of the mother (the 13yr old) to choose an abortion or not.
Recall in NZ, liberals supported law changes recently to allow underage mothers to get an abortion without parental knowledge (supposedly to prevent repercussions by incestous parents-caregivers).
That undercut the recognition that parents have authority (due to their better life experience and judgement) to make major life decisions (like abortion) on behalf of an underage girl. It is that parental right that distinguishes this 13yr old mother case from that of the 9 yr old mother with twins.
Wow - and apparently the 9 yr old's father (not the rapist - that is alleged to be the stepfather) tried strenuously to prevent the abortion, and it seems the girl may not have given consent, and the mother may even have been misled...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=15420
Sounds like there is a desperate need for a proper investigation (and possibly criminal charges) in Brazil into pro-choice advocates and NGO's ushing abortion by lying about the level of risk of birth to young mothers.
None of which changes the tragedy of the child being raped, but it is staggering to realise there are 30,000 such under-14 yr old pregnancies each year.
If the reported lack of maternal deaths is correct, that is strong empirical evidence against the claim of birth posing an intrinsic risk to the health of a mother.
"Y'know, I'm not sure it's worth arguing with ZenTiger. [He] has a set worldview, that women are worth less than fetuses, and that's all there is to it."
ReplyDeleteY'know, I'm not sure it's worth arguing with such people Zen. They have a set worldview, that the unborn are worth about the same as cockroaches, and that's all there is to it.
You should ask them what they'd like to be done to the rapist, after all they're happy to deal death to the fetus, but watch em' squirm out of dealing the same to the rapist.