Friday, September 17, 2010

Lucia Holy Father's visit to Britain has started UPDATED

On the plane, Pope Benedict XVI was asked by journalists whether he hopes “to make the Church as an institution, more credible and attractive” in a country where secularism is becoming the standard. The Holy Father immediately made it clear that he does not set his course according to approval ratings:

"A Church that sought above all to be attractive would already be on the wrong path."

And he immediately explained why:

"Because the Church does not work for itself, it does not work to increase its own numbers, its own power. The Church is at the service of an Other. It serves not for itself, to be a strong body, but to make accessible the proclamation of Jesus Christ, the great truths, the great powers of love and reconciliation that have appeared in him."

It is on this basis, he continued, that real ecumenism is achieved:

"If both Anglicans and Catholics see that they do not serve for themselves, but are instruments for Christ, they are no longer competitors, but are united in the effort for the truth of Christ in this world, and thus they also find themselves reciprocally in a true and fruitful ecumenism."

Related links: Mission Britannia. The Sun Shines in Glasgow ~ Chiesa
Pope visit: Benedict XV on first UK state visit (automatic video) ~
The Church Does Not Need to “Be Attractive” but to Proclaim the Truth: Pope to Journalists ~ LifeSiteNews
Pope Benedict XVI visit: 65,000 Catholics enjoy a day in the sun ~

Found the You-Tube clip on the Liturgy blog.

8 comment(s):

scrubone said...

One might criticse the Pope on a lot of things, but he's got that one 100% right.

Simon said...

Let's use proper names: it's the ROMAN Catholic Church, not plain Catholic Church. The Anglican Church is also a catholic church.

Lucia Maria said...


It's always been the Catholic Church. 'Roman' is just insisted upon by anti-Catholics.

Simon said...

Now, if I really wanted to be anti-Roman Catholic, I would use terms like Papist and Roman.

The Pope was and is the Bishop of Rome and the Catholic Church is just shorthand for Roman Catholic.

The claim that the Pope was more than primus inter pares was a cause of the Schism with the Eastern Orthodox Church. The Ecumenical Patriarch and the Archbishop of Canterbury are primus inter pares of their respective communions.

The Anglican Church is fully catholic and apostolic (like our Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters), but reformed.

Whilst I may somewhat sorrow over the state of NZ Anglicanism (I consider myself a High Anglican - not to be conflated with Anglo-Catholicism), the 2009 Anglicanorum Coetibus is hardly a fair basis for RC and Anglican reunion. In 2007, The RC and C of E agreed the statement Growing Together in Unity and Mission, “urge[ing] Anglicans and Roman Catholics to explore together how the ministry of the Bishop of Rome might be offered and received in order to assist our Communions to grow towards full, ecclesial communion.” In other words, it was envisaged that the Pope would merely be titular head (primus inter pares) of a reunited church, and not a supreme bishop to whose primacy we should submit.

I note that Benedict XVI is beatifying Cardinal John Henry Newman on his visit to the UK, which is rather a blow to RC - Anglican ecumenism. Newman was a co-founder of the Tractarian or Oxford Movement. The Movement defended the apostolic succession of the Anglican episcopate and priestly orders and that Anglicanism is a branch of the Catholic Church, fully coeval with the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches (read Newman's Tracts for the Times), ie, not a Protestant church. Later, of course, Newman, submitted to the primacy of the RC Church, but conversion, submission to the Bishop of Rome, and full communion with Rome, is not necessarily the logical conclusion of the Oxford Movement.

Benedict is sermonisng on secularism, but in 1838, Keble sermonised on National Apostasy, initiating the Oxford Movement.

Anonymous said...

Excellent speech from Pope's UK visit

Simon said...

leftrightout - agree with you on this one. Dawkins and Christoper Hitchens have, in past months, talked about getting the Pope arrested for crimes against humanity (eg, vicarious responsibility for child abuse). Benedict is, putatively, a temporal Head of State (Vatican State), and therefore subject to international criminal law. As Hitchen's pungently put it, "He [Papa Ratzi] should remain in charge of the whole rotten edifice - the whole profiteering, woman-fearing, guilt-gorging, truth-hating, child-raping institution - while it tumbles, amid a stench of incense and a rain of tourist-kitsch sacred hearts and preposterously crowned virgins, about his ears".

Lucia Maria said...


Your comment above reveals you to be just as anti-Catholic as LRO, and that's saying something.


Be very careful, or I will ban you again.

Lucia Maria said...

The intention of Christ is apparent from the Bible passages, which tell of the conferring of the mission upon the Apostles. "As the Father hath sent Me, I also send you: (John 20:21). The mission of the Apostles, like the mission of Christ, is a Divine mission; they are the Apostles, or ambassadors, of the Eternal Father. "All power is given to Me in heaven and on earth. Going, therefore, teach ye all nations; teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you, and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world: (Matthew 28:18). This Divine mission is always to continue the same, hence it must be transmitted with its Divine character until the end of time, i.e. there must be an unbroken lawful succession which is called Apostolicity. The Apostles understood their mission in this sense. St. Paul, in his Epistle to the Romans (x, 8-19), insists upon the necessity of Divinely established mission. "How shall they preach unless they be sent?" (x, 15). In his letters to his disciples Timothy and Titus, St. Paul speaks of the obligation of preserving Apostolic doctrine, and of ordaining other disciples to continue the work entrusted to the Apostles. "Hold the form of sound words, which thou hast heard from me in faith and in the love which is in Christ Jesus" (2 Timothy 1:13). "And the things which thou hast heard from me by many witnesses, the same commend to faithful men, who shall be fit to teach others also" (2 Timothy 2:2). "For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldst set in order the things that are wanting and shouldst ordain priests in every city, as I also appointed thee" (Titus 1:5). Just as the Apostles transmitted their mission by lawfully appointing others to the work of the ministry, so their successors were to ordain priests to perpetuate the same mission given by Jesus Christ, i.e. an Apostolic mission must always be maintained in the Church. ~ Apostolicity

Without even getting into the broken succession due to the faulty ordination of priests soon after the original split occurred, the very word "reformed" also indicates a split with the mission of Christ.

In other words Simon, you can pretend, but that's all.

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