Being Frank has a great post up on the media using a young woman's recent abortion as propaganda. Also mentioned is the blogosphere's most recent troll (eat your heart out, Millsy!) video effort linked to by GayNZ's forums.
Related Link: Media Propaganda and Tolerant Bigots ~ Being Frank
UPDATE: Pro-life spokesman calls video "sickening" ~ NZ Catholic
Related Link: Media Propaganda and Tolerant Bigots ~ Being Frank
UPDATE: Pro-life spokesman calls video "sickening" ~ NZ Catholic
HAVING JUST READ THE POST IN QUESTION, I WOULD THINK THIS WOMAN WELL QUALIFIED FOR AN ABORTION. SURELY THE FEAR OF BEING UNABLE TO PROVIDE FOR A CHILD IS A MENTAL ISSUE.
ReplyDeleteseems to me its more (to your eyes) aBOUT PUNISHMENT FOR G=HAVING FUN. All this talk of consequences for sex as if sex has one use and one use only - procreation.
For people who vehemently oppose evolutionary thought, you sure have a darwinian outlook on sex!
Fugley, except in abortion, the child gets punished by being killed.
ReplyDeleteWhy couldn't the woman wait until the child was developed enough to be adopted out to someone who could afford to raise him or her?
When I think the comparison with the Jewish babies saved from certain death in the Warsaw Ghetto during WW2 by being smuggled out and given to people who would care for them at the risk of their own lives - this generation of women seem like dwarfs in comparison to the giants of the past.
lucyna, its easy to be a hero when its not your body on the line. How many babies did you smuggle out?
ReplyDeleteYou and your mates claim that abortion brings all sorts of after effects; well, so does adoption, not just for the mother, but years down the track for the child too.
Claiming there is a pool of ready made parents just waiting to adopt doesn't amtch with past history. A history that is littered with stories of abuse in orphanges. You do remember them, don't you? Pittiless places where unwwanted children were sent, children that no one wanted to adopt.
I respect your right to choose not to have sex, how about you respect the right of others to abort a mistake?
Fugley, at no point do I ever say that I am a hero. However, I have had 2 children and haven't had to have them killed because they were inconvenient to me. In spite of the number of times I've been woken up in the middle of the night to cope with throwup all over the bed.
ReplyDeleteOf course adoption brings all sorts of issues - that is LIFE for you. While as in death, nothing much else really happens (except for the afterlife). Life is messy and uncomfortable and inconvenient and painful - but to consider that you are rescuing someone from all that by killing them is reprehensible.
Your team had the chance to choose Fugley - the choice not to drink, the choice to say no, the choice to use contraception, the choice to take care.
ReplyDeleteNow you want the choice to kill. Some are already asking for the choice to kill after the birth, before the baby is self aware. Some are demanding the government enforces sterilization.
In some countries, women with choice decide to kill just female babies.
Soon, women will be choosing to kill based on sex, eye colour and likely height.
Something tells me whenever people stamp their feet and say "but I just wanted to have fun" that they want lots of choice, but no responsibility.
zen, stop using your stereotypes.
ReplyDeleteNot every unwanted pregnancy results from a drunken orgy.
Why should someone choose to say no to something as enjoyabe as sex? aren't you doing it right?
Not all contraception is perfect, and some religions (yours?) place stupid bans on contraception.
Personally, I would prefer no abortions, but I also prefer abortion to going full term to satisfy the whim of an old man in a dress.
I do believe we can make a case for killing grossly deformed babies at birth, that being afr kinder than a life of pain and struggle.
And finally, sometimes to have an abortion is the responsible decision.
Òh, and I must say i feel for Ken Orr, after all getting the finger in a video is so much more hurtful than labelling people murderers, isn't it?
ReplyDeletefugley,
ReplyDeleteHave you ever heard or seen a pro-life person call a woman who had an abortion a murderer?
If so, they're the other end of the spectrum from the loons who made this YouTube video. True pro-life advocates don't pass judgement on women who have made that difficult choice.
Such comments are a typical response from pro-choice people though, so nice work toeing the party line.
This from zentiger, on this very blog.
ReplyDeleteIt ends in death for the fetus Fugley. It stops a beating heart. Don't trivialize murder by pretending this is the same as removing an ingrown toenail.
The debate is over the rights of an unborn to life by letting nature take its course, over the rights of the women not to complete the pregnancy for any reason she feels like.
I appreciate the complexity in both of those positions, but it should never be about how "valuable a function" killing can be.
Friday, June 13, 2008 7:07:00 PM NZST
Now, if there is a murder, logic suggests there must be a murderer.
Like any more examples?
Well, here's one more anyway
ReplyDelete“How can the dream survive if we murder the children?
Dr. Alveda King
from http://www.right-to-life.org/
home page, halfway down.
fugley,
ReplyDeleteThere's quite a difference between speaking about abortion as murder and meeting a woman who had an abortion and calling her a murderer.
How odd that you have attempted to change yopur proposition by later inserting the word "meeting". Why?
ReplyDeleteIn what way is speaking about abortion as murder any different to calling the participants murderers?
I inserted "meeting" (which could have been "talking to" or "writing to") because I'm referring to actual discourse with someone. Pro-life people don't stand outside abortion clinics and yell out "MURDERER" when a woman leaves the clinic. I know pro-choice people like to say that they do.
ReplyDeleteScribe and Fugley, I disagree that calling someone a "murderer" doesn't make some a true pro-life person. I'm sure that in order to be a pro-life activist, there is a certain code of conduct that has been agreed to, quite possibly based on what is considered to be the best and least upsetting tactic. Most likely also to be based on the pragmatic view that if you alienate all the women who have had abortions by calling them "murderers", then you've got less chance of having any political effect.
ReplyDeleteHowever, in my opinion, to say that a pro-life person doesn't consider (though it has been qualified by Scribe to say to directly in a meeting) an aborting woman a murderer is to do this thing of triggering the bull-shit detector that many people have.
Because in truth, if a human unborn baby is being killed unfairly in an abortion, then that unfair killing could quite rightly be called murder, therefore anyone who brings that death about could quite rightly be called a "murderer". Anything else is just engaging in semantics. There are enough euphemisms around hiding what is actually happening in abortion as it is.
Pro-life people don't stand outside abortion clinics and yell out "MURDERER" when a woman leaves the clinic.
ReplyDeleteScribe, not only do some of them do exactly that, some also murder doctors, nurses and women who have ahd, or intend to have, an abortion.
But again, you simply inserted that word to give yourself wriggle room. Surely referring to abortion as murder is exactly the same as calling the woman a murderer, even if the word murder is only used in a pamhlet or on a web site.
The only alternative is that you are a coward, not prepared to stand for your convictions; content to call abortion murder, but to cowardly to directly call the doctors, nurses and women involved aer not murderers.
Agrred lucyna, and if I had seen your post before mine I propbly would have just written "well put" and left it at that.
ReplyDeleteFugley - that would have to be a first. You've never agreed with me on anything that I can think of!
ReplyDeleteAs someone who considers themselves pro-choice, I thought that You Tube video was disgusting.
ReplyDeleteSuch petty personal attacks and vulgaroty will only undermine the case for safe, legal abortion.
The debate needs to stick to the issues.
You Tube postings like that, plus the crazy anti-National rantings of Trotter will only lose the pro-choice lobby support on the ight.
I said as much over at No Minister just now.
www.nominister.blogspot.com
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteActually, the prolife people I know don't shout *anything* outside abortion clinics. The simply stand quietly outside a pray the Rosary - a silent witness.
ReplyDelete