Coroners. They'll be the death of me.
A coroner has just called for a ban on snow tyres [DomPost, 29 July, A3]. Thankfully(?), they are calling for the ban to be only on mixing snow tyres with standard tyres, based on findings from two crashes.
In one crash, the main facts that leap out was that the accident happened whilst texting, and driving worn out snow tyres mixed with other tyres. In another, the brother of the crash victim called for an immediate ban on snow tyres, saying they were the sole cause of the crash. No they were not - the coroner said it was a combination of snow tyres and standard tyres.
As usual, people call for a ban to solve a problem.
And they want to ban snow tyres; not texting; not using worn out treads; not using inappropriate combinations of tyres - something that is never recommended by any credible tyre seller in any event.
No doubt, if they are banned, then we'll have another Coroner calling for them to be made mandatory when some-one skids off a snow covered road into a deep ravine on their way to a ski field. Just like this story:
Quebec's Transport Ministry is considering a coroner's recommendation that snow tires become mandatory for all vehicles in the province.Let's just ban them AND make them mandatory. That way, no-one will die.
The suggestion comes after a coroner's report found that all-season tires were a major factor in the accidental death of Benoit Plamondon four years ago. Plamondon died near Montreal, after losing control of his car on black ice.
Related Link: Quebec tires of no-snow tyre policy
Related Link: Getting a grip - Snow Tires
A place to buy the Hakkapeliitta 5 SUV 235/55 R18 spikeable, BSW featured tyre: Tires Easy
Disclosure: I lived in Ottawa, Canada for a few years. I'm a believer in the value of snow tyres. I've also had a close call (many years ago) driving on near-bald tyres. I now keep my tyres in top condition. I urge all drivers to do the same.
UPDATE: The comments are worth reading - we have the brother with the details of the Coroner's report on one of the crashes, detailing issues around poor quality imports and that current regulations refer to only matching tyres on one axle, with some important clarifications. All drivers of imported cars might want to check their tyres carefully!
The call for the ban appears to be restricted to second hand snow tyres coming in on imports, a different kettle of fish to banning snow tyres.
What drugs are our coroners on, and can I get some? A driver crossed the centre line on a bend and drove head-on into a truck because they were texting while driving and, er... um... oh yeah - driving with a mix of snow tyres and standard. Well shit, it had to be the tyres - because it's simply inconceivable that you could cross the centre line just with a bit of texting, surely?
ReplyDeleteNo doubt drunk drivers can get let off scott free with this defence:
ReplyDelete"Sure I was at double the legal limit, but the erratic driving was caused by my use of mismatched snow tyres. You really ought to ban them or some-one could get hurt"
"Case dismissed."
You talk crap...both of you! The Corner found that snow tyres when used in combination with standard tyres CAUSED the crash.
ReplyDeleteI SAID THEY WERE DEEMED THE SOLE CAUSE...YES I AM HER BOTHER!!!!
The Police Serious Crash Unit deemed the tyres to be the SOLE cause of this crash after extensive testing - including running them on a simlar car around Manfield raceway through a slalom course under wet conditions.They also did the same test with noraml road tyres.It was found snow tyres had a reduced traction of 27% when used on the back of the car and normal tyres on the front. My sister was not speeding OR texting for that matter.
DO not quote me as being WRONG...I AM NOT!!! My sister bought a used imported car...it had 4 snow tyres on it. She didn't know that, these things look like normal tyres unless you inspect them very closely, they are currently legal...many people (if you open your eyes and look a bit deeper into the facts) have no idea they have snow tyers fitted to their cars.
Anyway, my sister failed a warrant on 2 front tyres, she then bought 2 new ones...and NO the tyre dealer DID NOT tell her she had snows on the back and mixing them was dangerous.
I suggest you get your F*****g facts straight before you start posting your one-eyed know-it-all bullshit!!!
Some FACTS for you JERKS!
ReplyDeleteHow bout tread depth for 1 aye?
NZ doesn't need 2nd hand imported WORN OUT tyres!!!!!!
Extracts from Coroners Finding
Section 27: It is useful at this juncture to summarise the difference between snow tyres and what might be referred to as standard tyres. The tread pattern in a standard tyre will force water away from the tyre when the tyre is running on a wet surface to minmise the amount of water between the tyre and the road, thus resulting in good adhesion in wet conditions.
Section 28: In comparison, snow tyres feature a tread design with optimised tread blocks and special blading designed for use in territories where snow is frequently encountered. They are designed for use in severe snow conditions. In wet conditions the tread pattern on a snow tyre does not force water away from underneath the tyre.
Section 29: However, snow tyres comply with the standard for legal tyres set out in the Land Transport Rules 32013-Tyres and Wheels. In brief, these rules require tyres to comply with specified standards: to be of the same size, construction, and tread pattern on the same axle (emphasis added);of good quality; maintained in a safe condition; must not have worn or damaged cords; be of appropriate load capacity; be of appropriate speed rating; contain tread where indicated in the principal grooves and contain a minimum of 1.5mm pattern depth in the principal grooves.
Section 30: In this context I note that it does seem that the majority of snow tyres in New Zealand are imported on second-hand vehicles from Japan, or imported as second-hand tyres. Mr Cumming (MTA Communications Manager giving evidence) stated that on their manufacture in Japan snow tyres have a tread depth of 8-10mm - which is substantially deeper than the 1.5mm minimum tread depth required for tyres to pass a warrant of fitness in New Zealand. In Japan these tyres are not legal when their tread depth reaches 5mm - but they can be imported and used here legally until their tread depth reaches 1.5mm.
Section 31: It is important to note that snow tyres in and of themselves are not dangerous. As Mr Prebble (Manager of Product and Field Engineering at South Pacific Tyres Ltd - stated in a sworn deposition) noted in his report "snow tyres in themselves are not dangerous if fitted new as complete sets, and obviously perform best in the application for which they are designed - severe snow conditions"
Section 32: A significant problem, however, arises when a mixture of snow and other tyres are fitted on a vehicle, and that vehicle is driven in wet conditions. While the same type of tyre has to be fitted to the same axle, the tyres on the front wheels of a vehicle may differ from the tyres on the back wheels of the same vehicle.
Gee I hope I don't get caught in another blizzard heading to Palmy tomorrow!
Oh that's right, it doesn't snow in this part of the country!
To ZenTiger
ReplyDeleteJust to clarify I agree with MTA recommendations namely:
*A ban on the import of second-hand snow tyres.
*Snow tyres on imports to be replaced before a certificate is issued to allow the vehicles to operate in new zealand.
*Vehicles operating with snow tyres fitted outside the cold season and away from colder regions of the country should be refused a warrant of fitness.
*Vehicles found with a combination of snow and conventional tyres should be refused warrants of fitness.
I wasn't meaning that ALL snow tyres should be banned, and if you read what I wrote prior closely enough you'd figure out I was meaning using them in combination with normal tyres was the SOLE cause of the crash, the media misquoted me and didn't ellaborate fully on what I said,I had just come out of the Inquest and the reporter said "so what would you like to happen now?" I said ban them when used in combination with normal tyres but as you can appreciate the media don't get things right 100% of the time.
Of course there are areas of NZ that will require the use of snow tyres during winter but the vast majority of NZers DONT need them, especially all year round and certainly NOT 2nd hand worn out (less then 5mm tread illegal in Japan) ones imported by dodgy tyre dealers looking to make a quick buck.
I apologise for my ealier anger at what I read on this blog but to be told I was wrong etc it felt like my sisters' needless death was being made a joke of in that she was perhaps a non-competant person to be on the road. As you can appreciate this was my sister whom I loved very dearly.
Im now shocked to hear that any law change will not occur till at least 2010...I just hope nobody else loses a loved one due to what is obviously a flaw in our tyre safety law.
See this http://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatustandard/4635316a6003.html
As you'll see LTNZ have made recommendations but MTA don't think these have gone far enough.
My earlier comment refers to this:
ReplyDelete"Teenage sisters Lucy and Isabelle Simon died in January 2007 when their car slid on a bridge near Levin and hit a truck. A coroner found texting and mixing worn snow tyres with standard tyres were the prime causes of the crash."
My apologies...I was very angry at what ZenTiger wrote at that instant and also thought I should clarify that my sister wasn't texting.
ReplyDeleteDidn't particularly like what you said about the coroners drugs either.
That was somewhat mocking...
Trevor, we're really sorry about your sister's death. Just be aware that in no way was this post mocking your sister's death - we would never do that. It was more about banning things, and as the media had misquoted you, it certainly looked like a topic worth exploring. Thanks for your more in-depth explanation as to what you actually meant and what the situation was.
ReplyDeleteHi Trevor, I'm sorry for the confusion my post caused you.
ReplyDeleteAs explained I was referring to TWO crashes. The other crash involved texting as well as bad tyres.
I don't think I contradicted anything you said subsequent to this post, and I went off what was reported in the papers.
To clarify - snow tyres were NOT the sole cause of the crash, mixing different types of tyres was.
In my opinion, this is not a case of "banning" snow tyres, it's a case of regulating the quality and use, which I think we are in agreement on.
This principle also applies to directional tyres. We shouldn't "ban" them just because they are dangerous to use when fitted incorrectly, we need to ensure standards and regulations are adhered to so that they can provide the advantages they are designed for.
As my second link pointed out, some-one died when they weren't using snow tyres in Canada, and the Coroner called to make them mandatory.
I would hate to see snow tyres banned for the wrong reasons. Used correctly, they can save lives too.