Tuesday, September 1, 2009

Lucia How many traitors did NZ harbour during WW2?

I wonder how many traitors New Zealand harboured during WW2, that actively aided and abetted the enemy ie, those New Zealand was at war with. For it seems to be in league with communists is not something that is really frowned on here. Even when they are supposedly at war with you.

In yesterday's Dominion Post, Bob Brockie, in his World of Science column (pg B5), calmly tells us that in 1940, the Russians asked his father for help. Their soldiers were having problems with dysentry and somehow they knew of his work with seeds. So, the Soviet Union asked him to send over some seeds from the plant Hebe salifocifolia, a plant that supposedly helps relieve or cure dysentry.

In 1940, the Soviet Union was not an ally of New Zealand. The Soviet Union was, however, an ally of Germany, whom we were at war with. And Bob Brockie sees nothing wrong with his father sending over some seeds to help the Soviets with their war effort, and in today's New Zealand is very happy to write about it, not feeling the slightest bit of shame or disquiet.

11 comment(s):

Andrei said...

How many traitors did the West harbour Lucia?

Too many - the West totally betrayed Eastern Europe to the Soviets because of fellow travelers in powerful positions in England and the United States.

The thing is most people just didn't get it then and don't get it now.

One day you should do a post on the great Polish General Sosabowski, a man of honor who ended his days a factory worker in England.

squaredrive said...

Very unfair post Lucia! NZ was not at war with the Soviet Union until the Germans invaded the Soviet Union, at which point the Soviets joined the Allies and NZ in war against Nazi Germany, as I'm sure you know well.

So Bob Brockie's father was not helping enemy soldiers, as you imply with "Even when they are supposedly at war with you."

Declarations of war are not transitive - Britain and NZ were at war with Japan long before the US joined us, but that doesn't make US citizens who traded with Japan (while we were at war with Japan) traitors.

A time to remember the tragedy of WW2 and the horrors of war, not try to blame socialists for a facist war! Even if the Soviets used it as an opportunity for a land grab, before realising they had backed the wrong guys...

Were the Allies any less evil, when Churchill and buddies approved the Soviets grabbing eastern Poland after WW2, and the massive retribution /deportations to camps? Recall the West supplied most Societ heavy weapons & aircraft so could easily have stopped this - they just didn't care. Quite apart from the Soviet annexation of eastern Europe.

War is bad all round, and warring parties very rarely have altruistic motives - weren't George Bush's family were linked with IBM, which sold primitive computers to the Nazi's for their final solution?

squaredrive said...

Aaack! I jumbled the first paragraph, as is probably clear. NZ were not at war with the Soviet Union, even when Germany and Soviets were allies, but NZ was at war with Germany. When the Germans invaded the Soviet Union, the Soviets joined the Allies and NZ in war against Nazi Germany, as I'm sure you know well.

Too many things on mind while typing ;)

Sean said...

Doesn't the medical fraternity generally tend to work independant of all the political bullshit?: Médecins Sans Frontières

Lucia Maria said...

Squaredrive,

So is your entire argument that Brockie's father was ignorant in helping the Soviets with their war effort?

NZ was not at war with the Soviet Union until the Germans invaded the Soviet Union ...

Really? That doesn't make any sense.

Here's the thing. NZ declared war against Germany because of the invasion of Poland. The Soviet Union also invaded Poland jointly with Germany, and was an ally of Germany.

Are you telling me that the Soviet Union was not an enemy at that point, and helping the Soviets with their war effort (ie they were helping the Germans whom doing joint victory parades within Poland, getting ideas on how to do mass murder, shipping off prisoners to Siberia) would therefore not be considered traitorous?

And even now, when all of this is presumably known, that maybe a little bit of shame in even mentioning such help even if not technically traitorous, surely that would at least be appropriate?

ZenTiger said...

Britain and NZ were at war with Japan long before the US joined us, but that doesn't make US citizens who traded with Japan (while we were at war with Japan) traitors.

Why not? Is the word too strong for you?

Given Pearl Harbour, greedy and foolish then?

Andrei said...

Britain and NZ were at war with Japan long before the US joined us, but that doesn't make US citizens who traded with Japan (while we were at war with Japan) traitors.

To be pedantic here New Zealand (and Great Britain) did not declare war on Japan until after Pearl Harbour was bombed in 1941.


Total red herring

Psycho Milt said...

New Zealand was not at war with the Soviet Union in 1940 (or afterwards, for that matter), which makes it difficult to see exactly how NZers dealing with it could be described as "traitors."

Here's the thing. NZ declared war against Germany because of the invasion of Poland. The Soviet Union also invaded Poland jointly with Germany, and was an ally of Germany.

And yet we declared war on only one of the invaders. It may be that our puffed-up expressions of moral superiority when referring to WW2 don't tally with the rank hypocrisy of our govts at the time, but that doesn't alter the fact that we weren't at war with the Soviet Union and people dealing with it were not traitors.

Psycho Milt said...

To which we might add: signing a non-aggression pact so that each party can build its forces for an intended invasion of the other is a very long way from being "allies."

ZenTiger said...

Of course, that point of view requires one ignores what is actually happening in Europe and proceeding along the confident lines that if the government hasn't said anything, it must be a good idea.

Psycho Milt said...

I believe it requires only a recognition of what the word "traitor" actually means.

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