Thursday, April 11, 2013

Lucia No moral arguments wanted, we're past that already

Fr Barron's comments on the breakdown of our ability to even converse on moral issues. He quotes a new Justice just recently appointed by Obama, who said of the same-sex marriage arguments made at the Supreme Court in America something like this: Whenever a lawyer makes a moral observation in a case such as this, for me the red flag of discrimination goes up. Not a "bad" moral argument, but the very fact that a moral argument is being made is what she objects to.

That's pretty similar to Green Party Parliamentarian Kevin Hague's objection to the word "virtue". He said the use of the word virtue "makes his hackles rise", that he finds it "offensive". How can you even have a conversation with a person who finds virtue(ie moral excellence) offensive?

Fr Barron goes on to say that because many people can't even have a coherent moral argument or debate, then all they can do is hurl invective such as bigot at their opponents. I constantly experience that, though for me, it doesn't put me off because I'm used to it, but the shallowness of it does frustrate me at times.

Once a people no longer wants to listen to moral argument and can't stand being reminded of virtue, then the next logical step is always shutting down opponents.

7 comment(s):

Psycho Milt said...

I believe what raises Kevin Hague's hackles is not the concept of virtues, but the definition of the term by people who want to portray Kevin Hague's kind as lacking in them. I agree with him - if you hear the term "virtue" used to describe some malicious bullshit about a minority group, your hackles should rise.

Matthew said...

Can't agree PM. What you're doing is passing your opinion on someone's belief as virtue as "malicious b...".

Kevin doesn't like the fact that Grace disagrees for various reasons, rather than not liking/agreeing with her reasoning.

In the context of Grace's submission your claim that it is "malicious b..." to say that marriage is "malicious b...". Whoops! :).

Lucia Maria said...


I just had a quick look at the submission in question, and nowhere did I see anything that wanted to portray Kevin Hague's kind?? (politicians?) as lacking in them, nor did I see anything that "describe[d] some malicious bullshit about a minority group", nor did Hague complain about anything of that nature either, so I can only assume you are waxing lyrical for effect.

Andrei said...

LOL Milt, did you watch the video?

Or did it all just go over your head?

I agree with him - if you hear the term "virtue" used to describe some malicious bullshit about a minority group, your hackles should rise.

Hah Milt, if every one was virtuous we wouldn't need laws. And being part of an officially recognized "minority group" in these in enlightened times means gaining cover so that your behaviour is beyond criticism.

And if everyone was sexually virtuous there would be no DPB, no STDs, no family court, no CYFS and so forth

How middle class twits like Kevin Hague can claim a ststus on a par with the Copts in Egypt is one of the great mysteries of our times.

Really the silly little man wants his relationship with "his other" accorded the same dignity and respect as that of my relationship with my wife but this can never be because my marital relationship produced I,N,N and little T, the last of whom is about to cost about $10,000 dollars in orthodontics - hey ho the joys of parenthood.

And the reason why his hackles might be raised is that deep in his heart he knows this to be true

I.M Fletcher said...

Check out THIS image/quote on facebook by Venerable (Archbishop) Fulton. J Sheen -

"Conscience, Christ and the gift of faith make evil men uneasy in their sin...

... that is why many men sneer at virtue - because it makes vice uncomfortable"

I.M Fletcher said...

If you have some time to spare, you can check out this recording of oral arguments on same sex marriage back and forth between the lawyers and justices from the Supreme Court.


It's a wee bit long winded though.

Lucia Maria said...

Fletch, yes, I've read the same thing from Fulton Sheen a few times in various books of his. It's a good quote, the one that you've pulled up.

Thanks for the link to the arguments!

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