Friday, April 19, 2013

ZenTiger The sun will rise

It's a very stupid argument to pretend that your opposing party thinks the sun will not rise if x or y happens.

I have NEVER heard anyone use this argument, although I hear the reverse plenty from people who are avoiding making serious points by dancing around with comments like this. So let's get this clear:

The Aztecs occasionally missed a sacrifice, and the sun did rise.
The Roman Empire withered and died, and the sun did rise.
Hitler killed 11 million or so in concentration camps, and the sun did rise.
Stalin worked another 30 million to death, and the sun did rise.
17,000+ abortions in NZ last year, and the sun did rise.
Children killed in mass shootings, and the sun did rise.
Friends and family diagnosed with cancer, and the sun did rise.
A piece of legislation passed, and the sun did rise.

No-one really expected otherwise. Seriously.

The actual argument being made is "I don't foresee any negative consequences in action x", or perhaps "whatever the consequences are, I don't care as much as I want x". That's an OK argument to make, because it sets out a position that then can be discussed. The former approach just seeks to denigrate the other person by combining mockery with exaggeration. Let's try and lift the game a little.

5 comment(s):

Redbaiter said...


http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2013/04/a-pat-on-the-back-low-enough-and-hard-enough-never-hurt-anyone/#disqus_thread

Redbaiter said...

Banned at Whale oil.

Check the language used by the blog owner at the above link.

Slater is as good an example of what is wrong with the National Party today as you could wish to see.

ZenTiger said...

Well Red, you did call him an 'arsehole', which, in spite of gay marriage, hasn't been redefined as anything particularly clean and nice, AFAIK.

Slater resorts to much worse, which instantly loses the moral superiority he so often claims, but that is par for the course.

As you point out, Slater is back cruising for a new populist cause to help promote his blog and himself.

The cause of civil and reasoned debate in our society will be one that he will have to regrettably pass up.

Redbaiter said...

No problem with the action Zen.

Slater is an arsehole and I told him that and he banned me. All fine.

The thing is we just do not fight hard enough.

The arseholes are winning. We have to change that.

That change will only be affected if we break through the aura of smug self conviction that liberals like Slater assume.

He has for months pushed the lie that those opposed to marriage redefinition were a minority of bigots, radicals and outliers.

This is a complete lie. Slater knew it was a lie yet he pushed it time and time again. From a completely false and manufactured vantage point of moral superiority.

Unless we call the progressives out on things like this, they will just keep doing it and worse, keep getting away with doing it.

Liars are arseholes. EOS.

ZenTiger said...

I agree Red, and the one thing that I didn't expect was the potential strength of opposition to this change from "the man on the street".

Progressives like Slater certainly polarised the debate by sticking hard and fast to base attacks such as describing anyone putting up a counter view as "homophobes" and I really thought the progressives were doing a number on the population by the use of very typical Alinsky type tactics, and yet maybe there were signs that many more people than I thought were beginning to see through this approach. The fact that the Labour Party and Greens continue to dominate what policies are tabled, and National capitulating to them, and that any discussion of a referendum was hosed down appears not to be totally missed by a large voting bloc.

Maybe there is hope yet.

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