Friday, August 20, 2010

ZenTiger Friday Night Free for All

Evening all. I've been busy with my to do list, and so blogging has been light. It's been an impressive to do list. It would undoubtedly bring a lesser man to their knees, and even Clark Kent might be running for the phone booth with a list such as mine. Seven impossible things before breakfast? Hah. I'll let you know when I have time for breakfast. If letting you know happens to be on my list. It may well be, given the size, completeness and thoroughness of the list. Take a number. My people will call your people and they will both marvel at the list of doings that need ticks and strike-throughs.

Now, let me see - ah yes, here it is, way down the bottom of the list, on the other side of the list, in a small square box on the list, with fonts and special markings on the list, and a space for a red tick on the list, with lines on the list, and entered in neat list-friendly handwriting on the list, tonight's Friday Night Free For All must do on the list. Yes indeed, here it is directly from the list, the command I have reminded myself to do at this very time:

"Welcome one and all to the FNFFA. Drop in and say hello"

So let's hear from you all. Don't say I don't list-en.

33 comment(s):

ZenTiger said...

Now that will drive 'em away.

Andrei said...

Hi Zen (and any lurkers).

I noticed tonight the sun went behind the hill at 17:03 (5:03pm)an improvement of one hour and three minutes over the last time I noticed this phenomena.

Does this mean the world is getting warmer?

I surely hope so.

ZenTiger said...

I checked out side just now, and the world is definitely getting colder, and darker. Not sure what this means as it isn't backed up by peer review, and to be fair, I've seen this happen quite often but it always comes right again the next day.

Seán said...

My thought for Friday - I am currently on vacation in Casablanca, Morocco and yesterday I visited the Hassan II Mosque - the second or third largest mosque in the world depending on the source you read. As a non-Muslim I was not allowed to enter, but non-Muslims can visit the inside via guided tours at 9, 10, or 11am. There was a regular flow of worshippers in an out of the mosque. Now I compare this to my many visits to the wonderful Christian cathedrals over southern and central Europe over the past year or so, and indeed the scene is contrasting. Instead of people going into the place to pray, it is instead full or noisy tourists showing little or no respect for the house of God they are in. And this bloody well annoys me.

So why not take a leaf out of the Muslim’s book and ban all non-Christians from visiting these Christian places of worship with the exception of limited and controlled guided tours at times not disruptive to the programme of the church/cathedral? And the same sense of respect must also come from Christians visiting from outside their parish (who can enter at any time while it is open, and free of charge). Many probably also need to be reminded that this is a house of God and they can not just go in there to chat and take photos - if they are not there to pray then they should not be there at all.

In support of this camera’s could be banned – this would put off some fly-by tourists for a start – though maybe allowed in the controlled guided tours. I’m not impressed by those gimmicky souvenir shops either that I see in some cathedrals. Admittedly these shops bring much needed income to the church, but they should be small, unobtrusive and limited to the foyer area that is sealed off to the main cathedral interior. Cellphones are another bugbear, but worshippers are probably just as guilty as the tourists in this respect. Not sure of the solution to this one, but a clear ‘no-cellphones’ sign at the entrance is a good start (a visual sign, not written in the local language). Some have this reminder already but not even the majority I would say – so it should become a standard.

Well I’m starting to waffle but the point being that I would like to see the same respect and reverence inside the big churches and cathedrals that exists in mosques. Some discipline and exclusivity would go a long way.

ZenTiger said...

Spot on Seán.

ZenTiger said...

Although I'm not sure banning is required (at least not in Wellington because they aren't that busy with visitors); perhaps messaging that the Church is a place for prayer and quiet contemplation and tourists are restricted to the entry and back unless there is a tour on.

Ciaron said...

Is a normally aspirated WRX not simply an 2L Impreza?

are car dealers on trademe dumb or dishonest?

are buyers that gullible?

I am terribly vexed....

scrubone said...

So why not take a leaf out of the Muslim’s book and ban all non-Christians from visiting these Christian places of worship with the exception of limited and controlled guided tours at times not disruptive to the programme of the church/cathedral?

I think that would be treating the symptom, rather than the disease.

Much better to drive the non-Christians out of the clergy first!

scrubone said...

Ciaron - I once had up a dealer on trademe as he wasn't following the law, but he was able to point to regulations that supported his point of view and I mine.

I suspect that the complexity of the legal framework we all have to work within is much of the problem sometimes. I mean, do we really all live within the law? I suspect most people have no idea the laws that apply to their day-to-day lives, even in their jobs!

Andrei said...

Its worse than that, a woman I know was visiting England and wanted to attend Sunday Worship in an Anglican Cathedral.

This required getting a ticket and entering through a side door and worshiping in a side chapel because the main doors are used for tourists who pay a charge to enter therein to see the body of the church.

I wonder if they have read about the "cleansing of the temple" in the Bible in that church.

scrubone said...

Even in Christchurch last time we went into the cathedral there, we had to exit through the (rather permanent looking) gift shop.

Earlier generations have erected great monuments to their dedication to God, but it seems that later generations are more interested in the monument than the God.

ZenTiger said...

Yikes Andrei! Great point Scrubone, and what year is the car and what chassis on the WRX Ciaron?

Ciaron said...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Subaru/WRX-NA/auction-309143303.htm

scrubone said...

I recently read R. G. LeTourneau's autobiography.

Did you know that many modern road building machines (including the scraper and buldozer) owe their existence to a man who claimed God as his business partner?

He also made a machine that could deforest an acre of rain forest in 15 min - heh.

Andrei said...

D'eres somit on de sidebar gumming us up!

Bet I know what it is - if it gets too bad I'll effect a temporary removal.

Is anyone else noticing this?

Ciaron said...

Although I'd much rather have an S5 or an S6 than that bug-eye....

scrubone said...

Does seem like the main blog won't load. (I have a comment window open.)

scrubone said...

Ah, there it goes.

Ciaron said...

I just got logged out making last comment.

Andrei said...

Look at this Winchester Cathedral's admission fees.

And I see they call themselves a charity (that's the gift aid reference) they can claim the tax paid on the entrance fees from the government.

Its troubling

Andrei said...

Found the culprit - removed for it for now and the page loads in a reasonable time instead of getting hooked up.

Seán said...

Re ZT 8:22 PM - Maybe there can be a compromise version for the less visited cathedrals, but I would be concerned of going down a slippery slope back to square one (or even worse, as Andrei has highlighted in a few examples). And noise from the back can be clearly heard at the front. I still prefer a clear message being sent that this place is for worship only.

Scrubone 8:32 PM said: "Even in Christchurch last time we went into the cathedral there, we had to exit through the (rather permanent looking) gift shop."
- I assume you are referring to the Anglican Cathedral in Cathedral Square? That tourist shop went up about 15 years ago and no doubt it brings in a fortune from all the toursists who are led to believe this somewhat small cathedral is up there with the best from Europe. Sadly that cathedral has found no end of commercial uses and while it no doubt makes plenty of money for the diocese, it has sadly lost its soul.

"Earlier generations have erected great monuments to their dedication to God, but it seems that later generations are more interested in the monument than the God."
- Preciseley, and this is what needs to be reversed, starting with the various denominations sending the right message about what a house of God is there for (or rather, what it isn't for).

Seán said...

A second thought – why is it that all the punters called BS on Chris Carter’s claim of mental health issues that led to 2 months off work, but we never hear from these people with regards to the women that claim mental health issues which led to the death of an unborn child?

scrubone said...

Actually Sean - I think the problem is a bit more fundamental than that. Too many churches don't actually know what the house of god is for themselves.

Ciaron said...

I see Sean's point about respect for the purpose, but care should be taken not to put barriers between the lost and God.

just a thought.

Andrei said...

The irony of course is that in the East the great churches are being returned to the purpose for which they were originally built.

Christ the Saviour Cathedral in Moscow is a great story. It was blown up by Stalin and a monument to socialism, a modern concrete and glass tower, was supposed to rise in its stead. But everything that could go wrong did and it never happened so they turned the hole in the ground into a swimming pool.

But after communism fell it was rebuilt and rose again in only eight years.

There is some sort of moral here

ZenTiger said...

I'm not sure about Chris Carter, Seán, but I would think women who kill their own children are somewhat deranged.

Ciaron said...

Night all.. will check back in the a.m.

scrubone said...

Speaking of deranged, Gareth Morgan is on TV again telling us that Unicef are the "best return" on aid donations.

Seán said...

Valid point Ciaron (9:32 PM), but actually I believe the irony is in that by Christian denominations becoming too relaxed, wanting to be liked and trying to be too modern is in fact turning people off. Some denominations, and some parishes are worse than others. Many dioceses in recent decades have been listening to the wrong people - people who say the church needs to modernise, needs to become more attractive to the people. Well Jesus' message never needs to modernise.

That doesn't mean that change can't happen, it just means that change must be for the right reason (e.g. changing from Latin to local language) and it must never compromise central facets (from Canon Law to local parish homilies) that are based on the rock from which the (Western and Eastern) Churches were built.

I.M Fletcher said...

srubone,on Sunday the other day they did a story of Ray Avery, the New Zealander of the Year. In the second half of the story he asked by the interviewer which aid agencies he is critical of, and he points the finger at Unicef, who sank hundreds of tube wells in the 1970s in Bangladesh that turned out to be contaminated with arsenic. Because the water wasn't tested, 20 million people drank water laced with it. Avery says, "Unicef seems incapable of solving that problem".

See the video HERE (chapter 2).
ps, Avery is an incredible man. The whole story is worth watching.

FAIRFACTS MEDIA said...

Greetings from Lake Winnepeg.
It's breakfast time here.
Perhaps a drive in prayer is in order.
That's what I saw driving through Winnepeg yesterday afternoon.

FAIRFACTS MEDIA said...

Greetings from Lake Winnepeg.
It's breakfast time here.
Perhaps a drive in prayer is in order.
That's what I saw driving through Winnepeg yesterday afternoon.

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