Thursday, August 19, 2010

Andrei This post is calculated to cause offense

This post might be offensive to all those who find the Cross an offensive symbol. Sorry about that.

So what is it about the cross that drives some people insane?

Example - in Italy the crucifix has been a feature of school classrooms for many years. Naturally this cannot be let stand and a case id taken to the Human rights court in Strasbourg to get a ruling they be removed.

And of course the court obliged.

In Poland a Catholic president is killed in a plane crash. In a spontaneous outpouring of grief a wooden cross appears outside the Presidential palace and people leave flowers there.

Naturally a fuss ensues.

And in Utah where two Highway Patrolmen have erected crosses to mark fallen comrades the inevitable court case has resulted in an order for their removal.

In rejecting the crosses, the appeals court made several arguments, such as the large size and location of the crosses -- on busy public highways where motorists cannot help but notice. Other similar memorial crosses have been erected on public land such as Arlington National Cemetery to honor fallen war dead. But the judges noted those markers are generally accessible or visible only to those who expressly choose to visit them, unlike roads where citizens cannot help but see them.

It's a really scary thing that old cross.

Scary unless you understand its real meaning that is.

10 comment(s):

Canterbury Atheists said...

So let’s get this right Andrei.

Say one of your relatives dies in a bus accident and you turn-up at the site of the crash and you see (a.) a crescent moon flag put-up by relatives of the Muslim victims (b.) Buddhist prayer flags.

But no Christian symbols.

You would be happy and not complain or place say a cross down?

Given there are so many religions, passionate to the point they are willing to kill people the authorities across the globe are forced to ban all symbols in many circumstances to avoid antagonising one group or another and even those that don’t believe in a God that comes with weird names like ‘The Rose of Sharon’ and ‘Root of David’.

If only religions could get on with each other and not try and shove their dogma down the throats of other people, intimidate through violence, preach hatred – then you would see more tolerance in society.

Personally they can put-up what they like.

All the best.


Andrei said...

What are you on about Paul?

All along our highways there are crosses placed by the families of those killed - presumably those that placed them think it appropriate.

The crosses in the last story were also placed with the involvement of the families of the dead.

But your fellow travelers made an issue of it, proving what we already know - that they are fruitcakes!

Canterbury Atheists said...

Which tangent are you on?

The MOT want to get rid of the accident crosses – not because they are Christian symbols but because they are a distraction to drivers and the victims families often stop in dangerous spots and make themselves a potential victim.

Stop playing the martyr.

Which tangent are you on?

The MOT want to get rid of the accident crosses – not because they are Christian symbols but because they are a distraction to drivers and the victims families often stop in dangerous spots and make themselves a potential victim.

Stop playing the martyr.

A Christian asking for tolerance is like an alcoholic asking for a return to 6 o’clock closing.

Gotta shoot, nice chatting.


Anonymous said...

Andrei, the world has moved on since Innocent III. Our world is no longer exclusively RC, or even xtian. Crosses are no longer routinely put on graves.

And graves are where memorials to the dead belong, not on the side of the road, not in front of parliament and most definately not in schools.

Lucia Maria said...


The world has moved on, huh?

So, why does everyone know what a cross on the side of the road means? If they've moved on, that is?

Andrei said...

Are you trying to be funny LRO?

Stirring by bringing up Pope Innocent III?

Or are you just plain ignorant of history?

Anonymous said...

Andrei, not sure what you mean about my being funny. I am certainly not ignorant of history, in fact I often think you'd be far happier in the days of Innocent III. I chose him because he was just about the last of the warrior popes, trying to remake the world catholic and fighting against the rise of secualar power.

He also seemed to have a "thing" about Muslims.

Anonymous said...

Lucyna, it is easy to know waht a cross means, it symbolises death and that is ingrained in our western heritage. But that does not mean that a cross is always an appropriate symbol in public, secular, space.

And, as I said in my origianl comment, if people want memorials, well, that's what cemeteries are for.

I note that neither you or Andreai have had the courage to reply to Pauls' very valid question regarding your repsonse were a crescent moon or bhuddist prayer flag placed at similar sites in your town. Just how WOULD you respond?

Anonymous said...

I really think this is a no brainer. Provided the placement of the memorials is safe they should be allowed. All religions should have the freedom to create them and remember their dead.

Anonymous said...

Just FYI I would be more than happy with a religious symbol from another faith. (I think prayer flags are beautiful, they always cheer me up.)

Love of the Divine is a human universal, and I would support everyone in that. I find I have much more in common with Buddhists, Muslims and Hindus than I do with atheists actually because we all believe in God. I once participated in a World Day of Prayer for Peace which was an interfaith event and it was lovely.

I think the reason we place memorials where people died is because of our grief and our wish to remember that person. It's a perfectly human response and should be supported, provided it is done safely of course.

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