Sunday, April 22, 2007

ZenTiger Catholic Priests Banned

In an unusual move, the Corrections Department has banned Catholic Priests from entering prisons for the purposes of holding a mass.

"Catholic Priests have been permitted to visit prisons for many years. Recently, we decided to revoke this right. Basically, the law says that only relatives and legal representatives may visit prisoners, and we realised that the Priest communicating with prisoners was a serious loophole that we have moved quickly to correct."

Craig Ranapia was quick to offer a solution: "Lawyers can simply pop in and hold a mass. Now, lawyers may not seem like priests, but in special circumstances, I believe lawyers can act as substitute priests, which should be adequate for this purpose."

Unfortunately however, this is not the case. Fake Priests can only be used when it is an issue on the health of a priest. Should the priest be on the way to mass, and is struck by a car and seriously injured, or develop a life-threatening allergy to prison blocks, it would technically be possible to substitute a fake priest.

It seems some people believe that Religions should not be exempt from the law. "If a priest can get in to visit prisoners, when other complete strangers are not permitted, one has to wonder how far this will go" said Corrections Minister Damien O'Connor. "Although there are many instances of laws that have exceptions, such as the bringing of wine for the purposes of communion, into a prison, we don't think we should be making an exception over such a trivial issue. As for the wine thing - we plan on repealing that as well. Can't have 50 ml of wine sneaking into a prison. We actually believe this is the reason so much contraband makes its way in to the prisons. By coming down hard on priests, the inmates will know we are serious."

"I don't think God will be offended, because I would have been struck down by lightening by now" said Mr O'Connor.


Related Link: Communion Wine banned from prisons

Related Link: Freedom of Religion imprisoned by PC Bureaucracy

Related Link: Mustum available in certain circumstances, but not this one

18 comment(s):

Lucia Maria said...

I find all this very disturbing.

Moreso, that supposed Catholics don't find it a big deal.

Anonymous said...

Zen, can you provide the source for your O'Connor quote? I'm very tempted to send him an email.

Anonymous said...

Apparently the Catholic Bishops are discussing this at their biannual meeting this coming week.

I can imagine Cullinane, Dew and Brown all wondering how this will affect their pastoral plan....

ZenTiger said...

Sorry James - Damien made this comment to me during confession, so I am not able to provide a source at this stage.

Actually, in truth, he refused to comment at all about the issue.

But he did go to a Catholic Boys School, so it may be a vow of silence that holds him back.

Anonymous said...

Haha, I saw the satire tag and thought that might have been the case ;)

Craig Ranapia said...

Lucyna:

With all due disrespect, I think it can be left up to God and the proper ecclesiastical authorities to excommunicate me. Until then, please engage with my argument than fall back on your usual drive-by sneers.

ZenTiger:

And you can stop being bloody silly as well - I don't know which church you belong to, but lawyers don't perform mass in my parish. In Catholic cannon law, however, there are provisions that allow (with permission) the use of mustrum, a non-alcoholic wine, in the communion rite. Simple statement of fact.

Sorry, but I still think Dunne and Williams either don't know what the hell they're talking about, or they're suffering media mention withdrawl. (Either possibility is entirely plausible.)

There is actually quite a good reason why there is a ban on alcohol in prisons and, personally, I think there has to be a much better reason to allow exemptions however trivial.

ZenTiger said...

Craig, I provided a link to explain why Mustum is not acceptable, unless it is a health issue for the priest, as opposed to an attack on religious freedom. Please read the link.

And with all due respect, I think you do not understand the significance of the communal wine / blood thing.

Anonymous said...

I forgot to say earlier, the consecrated host is considered sufficient for the requirements of receiving Eucharist. Wine is to be encouraged where possible, but if the priests in this case could only serve the host, then it would suffice.

I will be VERY interested to see if the Bishops of New Zealand actually show they know this.

Lucia Maria said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lucia Maria said...

Mr Tips, but for the purpose of a valid mass and a valid sacrifice, the Priest must consume both bread and wine, even if in Holy Communion only the wafers are given out. The only time the Priest is allowed a substitute (mustum, as per ZenTiger's link), is if consuming alcohol is a health issue for the Priest).

Lucia Maria said...

Craig, what actual argument? As a supposed "Catholic", you are talking out of your arse. If you don't know something, I would recommend a bit of research before talking for all of us. Our side-bar does provide some resources. And I wasn't just referring to you in my comment above.

Anonymous said...

Lucyna
Oh yes, you are absolutely correct regarding the proper mass. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. I was talking solely about reception, not consecration.

My dig at the NZ Bishops is that this may provide them with the perfect opportunity to get priests out of the prisons and have lay people deliver liturgies, and provided they are bona fide extra-ordinary ministers, serve out communion in bread form only. Hence my dig at pastoral plans...

Lucia Maria said...

MrTips, are the NZ Bishops that bad? Because if they are, that doesn't bode well for the new liturgy that's being worked on. I've seen some translations released on international blogs, but apparently nothing will be shown until it is completed in NZ in 2008.

Anonymous said...

Yes, we heard that yesterday as well.

I really don't know why Bishop Denis Browne has indicated that this is the case. The liturgy translations have been completed. America already has them, so does Australia. England, like NZ, is taking it very slowly because they simply don't like being told what to do by Rome.

The new liturgy is not really a new liturgy - it is simply a return to more proper translations of the Ordo. The whole WUSS (Worshipping Under Southern Skies, with an appropriate acronym) program is an attempt by Archbishop Dew to stamp his liberal approach on things. The chief writer is a Fr John O'Connor from Christchurch, as close to a dissident/heretic as you will ever get in this diocese.

And yes, I am VERY worried about the future state of the RC Church in this country. But from within, not from without. I am trying not to be alarmist, but one is finding oneself spurned into more and more action over time. We need foreign priests. They are more orthodox and holy than the ones who come out of our Auckland seminary.

fugley said...

This is just too too funny!

The poor xtians are soooo desperate to be opressed that they have to invent opressions.

Why not pull your heads out of your bibles and churches and look at how the world operates.

ZenTiger said...

Wrong Fugley. Poor secularists are so small minded, they have to come down on half a glass of wine held by a priest to assert their authority.

Why not pull you head out of your arse and show just a smidgen of tolerance for an opinion that doesn't gel with your own pedantic, petty, pathetic world view.

And I say that as a person who is not even a Catholic.

Greg said...

Pretty strange.
On the otehr hand...

Almost as strange as seeing fmr KGB Colonel Vladimir Putin at Boris Yeltsin's Orthodox funeral.

Would love to know what Putin was thinking watching the bling Orthodox metropolian and other ecclesiastics.
"Guess dialectic materialism lost".

fugley said...

"...show just a smidgen of tolerance..."

Why should I, or anyone for that matter, show tolerance to that we find intollerable? Isn't this just the type of PC crap you so often complain about?

So, tell me zenti, if xtians aren't paranoid, why do they have do invent opressions?

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