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Mangled Carta

In the past 12 years, $14.3 million has been paid to the Crown. In comparison, New South Wales [Pop. 7 million - Zen]has seized more than $100 million in the past 14 years.

The law has been criticised as too weak, requiring proof that assets were acquired by crime profits.

The Government is introducing new powers to up the stakes, lowering the threshold for proving the assets were obtained through criminal activity.

The Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Bill, now before a select committee, will allow courts to seize property even if a suspect is not convicted. The onus will be on the criminal to prove it was legally obtained.
The onus will be on the person found 'not guilty' they mean. Technically, they aren't a criminal if they weren't found guilty. But hey, it's a Labour Government. Subtle distinctions like that may be beyond them.

Anyway, there are many opportunities for abusing this new power. Maybe we should be a little concerned? I'll just throw one idea down, because as far fetched as this sounds, it isn't really any different than the steps recently taken, such as the one requiring registration to express a political opinion if your group is going to advertise it.

If one looks at the reaction from the left to those that are spending money fighting the EFB, you can already see how this will play out. It will not be enough to merely cap the spending at $120K. You'll have people convinced that spending is way over the cap. Surely, the Police should be able to move in and seize the advertisements, take down the billboards, freeze assets and then expect the accused to fund a court defence to prove spending was proper?

Perhaps paranoid, but then, if I had suggested the farce that was the EFB process 12 months ago....

Related Link: Police grab the booty and bling


  1. If the Crown believes they're the proceeds of crime???
    We're f*&^ed. Totally.

  2. if you listen closely you can hear the encircling organs of state control clicking into place.

    on the other hand, I always wonder where gang members get the legit cash to buy a harley.

  3. Yes indeed Greg B. In one sense this is a good way to strike at the heart of criminal activity. But what interests me most is "where are the checks and balances". They seem sadly lacking in most laws our government rush through.

    It is also easy to become more suspicious when such is the standard of reporting that these issues are not mentioned, and the man found not guilty is referred to as the "criminal".

  4. Zen
    It all turns on what "someone" thinks criminal activity is.

  5. Crown forfeit orders are signed well before the accused is convicted ? Tell me about it , depositions are often rigged by crown, closed chamber deals !! . Where did my car go bailiff man ? Who said the law is an ass , well I'll go one further and say that the law is just another state revenue gathering agency , justice sucks , pre judged as guilty once arrested . Crown law are gutter snipes low lives ! Judges should be ashamed of themselves !

  6. "on the other hand, I always wonder where gang members get the legit cash to buy a harley."

    They have Govt contracts. Including contracts with the NZSIS and that's no BS. It's a fact!

  7. I can link gangs contract work to many Government agencies ,fact .

  8. govt contracts by gangs.
    This was confirmed by a Mongrel Mob chapter leader (ret.) interviewed by Kim Hill about 3 weeks ago.

  9. I hate this bill as much as the next guy (in fact, I've been railing against it for the last three years, and went so far as submitting on it, which is probably more attention than any of you have ever paid it until you could indulge your lurid fantasies), but I think you're wrong about the potential application in concert with the Electoral Finance Act. If you read the bill, you'll see that it sets the threshold for seizure at "significant criminal activity" carrying a penalty of more than 5 years' imprisonment, or generating more than $30,000 in profits. The Electoral Finance Act imposes a maximum two years' imprisonment for a corrupt practice; as for the profit criteria, if it was held to apply (and it would be a big stretch), it would apply to the advertising company (which generates the profit), not the political party.

    There are many good reasons for opposing the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Bill: it violates the presumption of innocence. it violates the right to a fair trial. it violates double jeopardy, and allows the government to impose essentially criminal sanctions (under the fig-leaf of a civil order) to people found innocent by the courts (or not even charged). But it being used as a tool of political oppression isn't one of them.

  10. Fair points Idiot, but given the good press the EFB received, and your own admitted lack of traction over the past three years - linking the two together on the grounds that it is (IMHO) fair comment to point out the dangers in this government's penchant for authoritarian law making seems to me to be a valid tactic.

    Some on the left think because the world didn't end with the repeal of s59 within 5 minutes, that any sort of bill can be passed of this nature with zero consequences.

    But enough about politics. Can I interest you in a diet of fish with traces of mercury? Would you like to put some asbestos paneling in your home as as a fire retardant? How about some dioxin in your milk carton? Some totally safe sweeteners in your diet coke?

    Yes sirree, the world didn't end five minutes ago. Wonder what NZ Labour can do now?

    Thanks for dropping by and leaving a comment. I'll have to return the courtesy one day :-)

  11. That parting shot was beautifully worded - now with extra sting!

  12. I remember watching a doc on the Recovery Bill which dealt with several 'criminals' who appear to have been wrongly targeted. While we must always be wary of who we trust, and doc makers can get it wrong, it appears that common amongst the victims was the claim that they got their money winning lotto. Because they couldn't prove that they earned their spondooleys by 'normal' means, they got trounced.

    One of the victims did say they produced evidence of their lotto win but that was to no avail, however the fact that maurijana was found growing on the farm they bought with the money was evidence against them. But was that sufficient for the police to seize the farm without question or trial?

    No, it should be innocent until found guilty.

  13. Dad4justice, please - you are moving from jest to pointless abuse. Jest is good. Go with the jest, forget the rest.

  14. I understand zentiger what you are saying but these leftist creeps are so warped in their thinking that it is way past time that someone with a non pc attitude whacked them into line .

    Don't worry I will eliminate my abuse from my vocabulary .

  15. The point is, Dad4Justice, you completely failed to understand what anybody was saying. Here's the "for dummies" version:

    1. Zen Tiger gently pointed out that it's very bad form for Idiot/Savant to turn up here and comment, having denied others the right to comment on his own posts.

    2. I agreed with him.

    3. Dad4Justice arrived to quack on about Helengrad and snakes (as usual).

    What exactly do you imagine you "understood" before making that contribution?

  16. No psycho melt , the point is, have a Merry Christmas as I am sick of trying to debate with you .What a twisted concept the left have .

  17. Ah Psycho (And Idiot if he happens to run by here again) I can see now how I may have given the impression that Idiot/Savant was in "bad form" to comment here, but I was not meaning to sound so harsh.

    I'm happy for Idiot/Savant to comment here, but, yes, I could not resist reminding him that very few people openly agree with him on his blog. In fact, I can't remember any-one leaving favourable comments in the last few months at No Right Turn. Perhaps he should rename his blog to "No Parking".


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