Monday, March 9, 2009

ZenTiger The luck of the Irish

The luck of the Irish may have run out, with the recent shock murder of two soldiers and the wounding of four others, including a couple of innocent pizza delivery men who inadvertently provided opportunity for the gunmen to launch their attack.

This sort of event had been due for some time now, with several security threats registered on police forces over the last year, with only a bit of Irish luck and determination deflecting previous murder attempts. That luck has run out.

I hope and I pray this is not going to spiral back down to the level of violence we saw 30 years or so ago.

What happens next is going to be important. Let us hope wiser heads prevail and Ireland can pull back from the brink.


Related Link: Pizza delivery

11 comment(s):

Canterbury Atheists said...

Hi there,

You may want to re-visit this post of yours dated 4th Dec........

"We here at NZ Conservative, do not shirk from the t-word. If a group acts like terrorists, then that is what they are"

"I read a couple of posts yesterday (NoMinister, HolySmoke) on the fact that a number of journalists are afraid of mentioning the word "terrorist" in their articles. If journalists do not mention the t-word, then the terrorists have already won part of their aim - striking fear into their enemy and therefore being able to influence their behaviour to win the ultimate war etc etc"

"The original Islamic terrorists came from a sect of Islam - Ismailism - that developed within the Shiite faction in Persia, Arabia, and North Africa. These Islamailites.... etc etc".

So why not call the 'Real' I.R.A 'terrorists'there Zen???

That's right the members of the 'Real' I.R.A, just happen to share the same religious beliefs as you!

The IRA's (real or the traditional versions, there-of) stated objective is to end "British rule in Ireland,", uniting the two Irelands.

The principal stated aims of al-Qaeda are to drive Americans and American influence out of all Muslim nations, especially Saudi Arabia & destroy Israel.

Definitions cut & pasted from Wikipedia.

Both these terror groups rely on fanatical beliefs of their followers, feed on a historic hatred of their enemies, and depend heavily on funding from overseas.

Until September 11th , The I.R.A received the bulk of it’s funds from Catholic Irish Americans.

Al-Qaeda still relies on overseas funding, from ‘believers’.

Both groups use religion as ‘their glue’ and rely on individuals, who would kill for a cause, to achieve their aims.

The ‘Real’ I.R.A are Catholic terrorists in the same way Al Qaeda are described as Islamic terrorists.

Plain and simple.

Both groups are vile, scum who threaten our way of life and freedom itself.

Time to call a spade a spade mate.

See ya.

Paul.

ZenTiger said...

Paul, nice rant. You obviously missed the T word in my list of labels, right under the title of the post.

I usually reserve the T word for where people deliberately target non-combatants, and this particular cowardly attack was not quite going that far, but then again the two pizza delivery men appear to have been innocent bystanders and so I threw that label in.

This kind of action is contrary to Catholic teaching, and I see both Protestant and Catholic leaders have joined in condemning this act.

I doubt that will mean anything to you, but there you go.

Canterbury Atheists said...

Mate, what al Qaeda do, is against the teachings of Islam and main-stream Muslims, but they still use religion as a justification – so who cares if The Pope, himself decries the latest I.R.A murders.

I’m sure the family of the dead-soldiers will find no solace in these vacuous platitudes.

If you guys are happy to use the label ‘Islamic Terrorism’ where applicable please at least have the consistency to use the appropriate label with other terrorist groups who similarly use religion to help them achieve political goals.

I have yet to see a single post labeled ‘Catholic Terrorism’ on this site, but others with the term ‘Islamic Terrorism’.

Nutters killing in the name of their God and cause, come in all colours.

Sadly as chance would have it, you now have a 2nd chance to show some consistency and objectiveness, in respect to the reporting of terrorist groups.

The I.R.A have killed another policeman (per the BBC web-site) a couple of hours ago.

Thanks to this Catholic Terrorist group it’s a slippery slope back to the bad old days in Northern Ireland I’m afraid.

The terrorists within the Protestants constituency will soon retaliate with assassinations of their own = never ending spiral of violence.

Then the Irish Liberation Atheists will join in with their own bombing campaign – oh that’s right, there is no atheist terror group operating there. Silly old me.

There ya go.

Paul.

ZenTiger said...

Mate,

1. You forget to say "sorry" about your first accusation. There was the T word all along.

2. We don't have the label "Islamic Terrorism" on our blog. Don't get too carried away with your new line of attack.

3. Fundamentalist Islam is all about converting the world to Islam and sorting out the Dhimmis. The IRA are not about converting Protestants to Catholicism. They are essentially a Nationalist Movement. Thus, it is incorrect to call it "Catholic Terrorism".

4. Atheists are just as capable of using religion to justify their agendas, but being atheists, they have to use other people's religion. They are also capable of committing great evil for whatever reasons they wish to justify. Doesn't make them right either.

KG said...

"..what al Qaeda do, is against the teachings of Islam"
No it isn't. Read the Koran, the Suras and the Hadiths.

Canterbury Atheists said...

Since we now have to use numerical headings for effect:

1.)I run a blog as well. You use those ‘topic’ references like ‘terrorism’ for punters to find a subject – not as a headline. Apples and Pears buddy.
2.)The title of the post I alluded to above (4th Dec) is headed ‘Islamic Terrorists and The Assassins’ – but you always seem to be bailing Maria out of sticky debates, so let’s leave that one here.
3.)The IRA wants to see the Irelands united and the Protestants repatriated to England (ethnic cleansing of sorts) To repeat the Wiki objectives of both respective groups above…The IRA's objective is to end "British rule in Ireland,", uniting the two Irelands.

The principal stated aims of al-Qaeda are to drive Americans and American influence out of all Muslim nations, especially Saudi Arabia & destroy Israel.

If you want to change Wikipedia – don’t argue with me, take it up with them.

They are both nationalist groups hiding behind religion. One just has a bigger scope.

Ian Paisley (not a good reference I appreciate) once said “The Provisional IRA is the military wing of the Roman Catholic Church”.

4.)Zen, have you been drinking mate? Sometimes I can’t resist when I’ve had a few as well. Friday nights especially, so I’ll take it you’ve made my error, and got too pissed to make sense, and in the morning regretted it. Without going off on a complete tangent and sticking to the subject matter we are debating - please name me one ‘atheist’ terrorist group in the world that fits your criteria?? No that’s being mean. Forget it. Guinness is my weakness and I agree with you. History is littered with atheist terror groups like the Gunpowder plot, K.K.K, I.R.A and Al Qaeda etc.

5.)On reflection you are right.

It’s the atheists in Northern Ireland causing all the sectarian problems.

If they were all Catholic, there wouldn’t see the senseless murder and violence.

Note: If you took the liberty of looking at my blog KG you'll see I am no friend of Islam. The reason why I vet comments first, is because of the threats I get from Muslims and extreme Christians to do me and my family harm.

Bye for now.

Paul.

ZenTiger said...

Mate, you don't need to be a follower with the numbering system. Use A, B, C for effect if it suits.

A. You seem to inhabit a much stranger world than even me.

You appear outraged at our "hypocrisy" because this blog has used the phrase "Islamic Terrorists" in a post title once out of 1300+ posts, and yet have never seen fit to use the phrase "Catholic Terrorists"?

Maybe the occasion hasn't arisen? It still hasn't. For the same reasons I haven't labelled these as "Male Terrorists" or "Irish Terrorists" or "Red Haired Terrorists".

On the other hand, fundamentalist Muslims have provided a lot of material to consider the ins and outs of Islam and where it is heading under it's major adherents.

As you should realise, not all religions and ideologies are equal.

Canterbury Atheists said...

Again, you are right and I’m wrong & I apologise profusely Zen.

It’s the atheists in Northern Ireland that are putting at risk the fragile peace that exists, by masquerading as I.R.A terrorists, wanting a united Ireland.

By the way what exactly are the aims of the global Atheist terror groups you allude to?

Richard Dawkins book for every child?

Human-Rights for Chimps?

Non-sectarian schooling?

As a bit of a laugh I went to google at typed-in ‘atheist terror groups’ and the top hit took me to ‘Godweb.org’! (try it yourself if you need some light relief)

So I’m intrigued with you the concept of atheists conducting terror ‘killing in the name’ campaigns in the same fashion as we see with theists.

Gotta shoot.

Paul.

PS: The strange people are the most interesting. Sadly most are locked-up.

ZenTiger said...

Apology accepted.

This "Real IRA" group is a bit strange, but then again, most terrorists are. They deliberately target Catholic Officers, which we could interpret as Religious Persecution I suppose, but I think they just want war.

You are missing the point about Atheist Terror Groups. I'm saying that nutters of all types use whatever vehicle handy to justify their views.

For example, your typical ardent environmental terrorist might be an atheist, but they don't self-identify like that, they will call themselves "Friends of Earth" or some such thing.

However, a canny group of terrorists who happen to be atheists might well decide it would be useful to pin the blame on the Catholic Church, if they though it would advance their aims.

Then there are those in history that are not just atheists, but hate religion with a passion, and have gone on to persecute and kill many for the sake of their particular ideology. Stalin and Mao spring to mind.

Funnily enough though, I see liberal secular thought slowly decaying to hating all things religious with a zeal that would make any fanatic proud.

Some such people sound absolutely irrational within just a few sentences.

You may have just uncovered a rising threat - atheist terrorists that justify violence against Christians because the message of Christ - love thy neighbour as yourself - is just too scary.

Look at the recent Gay Mobs in America, one that burst into a Church and assaulted the congregation, and another that tried to beat up some Christians singing on a street corner. Atheists all.

Canterbury Atheists said...

Stalin and Mao’s purges were for political/ideological reasons.

Both saw religious entities as a threat to their power.

Saying they killed in the name of atheism is saying they conducted mass-murder because of their tough childhoods.

Strange isn’t it all these Ardent Atheists never get together and form terror groups like those ardent Theists, eh.

Matthew 10:34 - "I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword"

Gay mobs beating-up Christians, is another grasping at straws effort mate.

Matthew 5:17 says: "Blessed are they who are persecuted for my name's sake."

View; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20M9ywn7Zgs

There's plenty of Christs 'messages of love' to the homosexual population, on this you-tube.

Then there’s an ascertain The Real IRA (who are all Catholics) some how think they will do their case good by targeting Catholics?

Two soldiers died in the first attack, and four civilians were injured when the pizza delivery staff and bystanders were sprayed with bullets.

But your ‘spin’ is the Catholic terrorists said “don’t shoot him he’s Church of England” (of course all pizza staff in N.I come with identifying badges, which are luminous at night)

“We only shoot Catholics to make it look like we are Protestants”.

Boy mate, I think you are losing it.

See ya.

Paul.

ZenTiger said...

With your fundamentalist fervency and my patience, we could be a great team! (Aside from the small difference of opinion on Christianity).

I will do you the honour of a reply as an entire post, when time permits (and right now that is a toughie).

I look at the to-do list you make for me, and it's not small. I knew I shouldn't have waived the consulting fees :-)

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