There is a growing movement of atheists that think by getting a certificate of "debaptism", that it will have a real effect on undoing the baptism they didn't consent to that they got as babies.
Only problem is that baptism marks the soul and cannot be removed. From the Vatican website on Baptism:
Related Link: Following atheist trend, Britons seek 'de-baptism'
"We now produce a certificate on parchment and we have sold 1,500 units at three pounds (4.35 dollars, 3.20 euros) a pop," said NSS president Terry Sanderson, 58.
John Hunt, a 58-year-old from London and one of the first to try to be "de-baptised," held that he was too young to make any decision when he was christened at five months old.
Wow.
The male nurse said he approached the Church of England to ask it to remove his name. "They said they had sought legal advice and that I should place an announcement in the London Gazette," said Hunt, referring to one of the official journals of record of the British government.
So that's what he did -- his notice of renouncement was published in the Gazette in May 2008 and other Britons have followed suit.
Michael Evans, 66, branded baptising children as "a form of child abuse" -- and said that when he complained to the church where he was christened he was told to contact the European Court of Human Rights.
Only problem is that baptism marks the soul and cannot be removed. From the Vatican website on Baptism:
272 Incorporated into Christ by Baptism, the person baptized is configured to Christ. Baptism seals the Christian with the indelible spiritual mark (character) of his belonging to Christ. No sin can erase this mark, even if sin prevents Baptism from bearing the fruits of salvation.82 Given once for all, Baptism cannot be repeated.Oh well, if these people ever come back into the Church, they are going to have one hell of a confession to make.
Related Link: Following atheist trend, Britons seek 'de-baptism'
Um surely being an atheist means that it really doesn't matter what religious things were done to you as a child, as long as it didn't involve any form of physical or sexual abuse, it's neither here nor there.
ReplyDeleteSo what if someone splashed water on you and uttered some words, if you don't believe, it was inconsequential.
If one thinks otherwise then how can you be an atheist?
Thus the term "idiot atheist" I suppose.
ReplyDeleteI just love the way they expect to also undo history by getting their name removed from a book.
Repeat after me "It never happened. It never happened. It never happened."
Right, that's $80. See you next week for therapy.
Here's a get rich quick scheme waiting for exploitation:
ReplyDeleteMarket a whole line of "Unbaptise shampoo and conditioner" product to the (probably huge) 'idiot atheist' segment of the market.
It's copyright. Cut me in 1% royalty.
"It's copyright. Cut me in 1% royalty."
ReplyDeleteEnsure that you put a warning label on the bottle to stop people like Cresswell from drinking the stuff.
Interesting concept this debaptism, and whilst it may appear superficially at first glance, to be a ‘good little earner’ it has more substance than that, and is not confined to the U.K.
ReplyDeleteThe first time I heard of debabtism (or apostasy) was in Canada.
After the Brazilian rape/abortion saga recently, 20-30 odd Canadian Catholics there were ashamed at the Churches reaction and wanted their names scrubbed from all baptismal records. Don’t blame them frankly, but moving-on.
As it turns-out The Catholic Church does have an official policy on what to do, when someone asks to leave.
Here, it is:
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/intrptxt/documents/rc_pc_intrptxt_doc_20060313_actus-formalis_en.html
There’s also similar “collective apostasy” campaigns in Spain and Argentina, for Catholics who feel abandoned by the church they were born into and now want 'out'.
The Argentinean movement also attracted supporters disgusted at Bishop Williamsons, anti-Semetic outbursts and wanting nothing more to do with The Catholic Church.
Some of those outside the U.K that opt to leave The Catholic Church, turn to another religion rather than giving-up on God altogether.
So it’s hardly an Atheist movement, more disenfranchised believers wanting nothing more to do with their Church of their birth and demanding their names are removed.
Some give-up on religion altogether, some simply want to signal their deparure in the loudest way and move on to another Church.
It's a support-group of sorts, for those going through the process, no one is trying to induce anyone to leave.
Individuals come together of their own volition.
If you had have done your research you would have found on a worldwide basis, this course of action is most popular amongst "Idiot" Catholics rather than "Idiot" atheists.
By the way The Church of England refuses to delete names saying they are ‘of historic record’, so it's a wasted exercise for many in the U.K at least.
Off for now.
Paul.
PS: Before you ask "No I wouldn't". Who cares.
The de-baptism story is very much about atheists wanting to debaptise themselves.
ReplyDeleteIt was initiated by the NSS (National Secular Society) which seeks to end any religious "mumbo jumbo" in society.
It blithely argues 'human rights' come before 'religious rights'. This is atheist 'mumbo jumbo' for saying that it wishes to stamp out all forms of public expression of how humans feel they can engage in their religious beliefs.
I'm sure there are idiot Catholics around the world that think SSPX Williamson's views are actually endorsed by the Catholic Church (they are not), and they are free to leave the Church.
They cannot be un-baptised though, if one understands what baptism is, and that was the point made in the post.
Zen, debaptism, is not just an “idiot” atheist movement you & LM would like it portrayed as.
ReplyDeleteDo your homework and don’t just cut and paste from other Catholic blog sites who are carrying this non-story.
Let’s get this right - in the U.K it started as a piss-take.
If you do a You-Tube you’ll see their debaptism ceremony involves a children’s paddling-pool and a women’s-hairdryers to blow-away ‘the spirits’.
To quote this Sanderson bloke from NSS……
"The debaptism certificate started out as a kind of satirical comment on the idea that you could be enrolled in a church before you could talk, but it seems to have taken off from there”.
The only ones who take these certificates etc seriously are ‘thin skinned’ humourless theists.
The mass-apostasy examples I quoted from Argentina and Spain are the more serious expressions of the desire for members of a given religion to signal their departure.
The reason you want to focus and act indignatious on the U.K piss-take and avoid the more serious manifestations, is because it allows you to paint Atheists there as “idiots” and malicious ones at that, and let’s you ignore hundreds of Catholic turned their backs on you given church in disgust, at it’s recent actions in Brazil incest/rape/abortion case and Jew hating Bishops (amongst some of the publically issued reasons)
See ya.
Paul.
Came across a 'quote' of course from an older priest who asks "WHAT DO YOU CALL A CATHOLIC WHO BELIEVES IN 75-90% OF THE CHURCHES TEACHING?
ReplyDeleteanswer- a protestant". All due respect to protestants of course. I am pretty sure that down to a man/woman, each and every individual who wants impossibly, de-baptism, disagree on many of the church's teachings anyway. Certainly don't recognize the authority of the Pope.It is by far, simply a case of Non-Serviam (I will not serve).Not so much a case of the externals. Rather, it reveals a spiritual problem.
Paul, you make a whole pile of statements that ignore my own comments. Read them first, before you get all excited about the focus you yourself are putting on the story.
ReplyDeleteI'm not denying there are people leaving the Church, as I said, many for reasons of ignorance as much as deeply held non-conviction.
You seem very afraid of admitting there are idiot atheists out there. Is atheism sacred to you? Is atheism a religion?
Lighten up mate. It was one story, of a funny situation. We also covered the other stories, as you well know.
Pray(?) tell Canterbury Atheist, considering you do research whilst Zen is the'cut and paste' dude, for a 'mass' apostasy, what sort of numbers are we dealing with here? No pun intended however many of the mass apostasy folk probably never went to mass anyway! Maybe apostasy, though highly unlikely to be of the 'mass' type. Anyhow, who says clearing house is a bad thing.Sort of separates the goats from the sheep.South Islanders will understand that, I'm sure.
ReplyDeleteYou utilized you-tube (a bit dicey for peer-reviewed material) as well as cut and pasted Sanderson. mmm...Not the best research though I'll grant you the benefit of the doubt (Christian charity). Just to clarify, atheists do suffer from a 'denial of objective reality' aka spiritual blindness.
You obviously believe words that you read without attempting to look behind them such as quoting Sanderson and Nazi literature. So I'll take it that you will accept the following well-worn statement, "There are no atheists in fox-holes". Trying to figure out whether that imolies atheists don't go to war like Jehovah's witness or is that they sort of convert? Of course you are most welcome to 'look behind' this statement. I promise you will discover men who've been to hell-and-back.