Saturday, July 17, 2010

Lucia Conservatism is not compatible with gay rights

With David Cameron's blessing, Nick Herbert is off to Poland to try and convince the Polish to be more accepting of gay rights.
Nick Herbert, Britain's most senior gay minister, will tomorrow attend Europe's largest gay pride celebration in Warsaw in an attempt by the Tories to encourage their eastern European allies to abandon homophobic views.

A gay pride parade (yes, I've been to them) will do the opposite. Anyone who is not well-disposed to full on out there homosexuality will be more entrenched in that view by watching a gay pride parade in which mostly men flaunt themselves in a gratuitous way to the general public.  Rather than the Polish abandoning their views, it will further reinforce them.
The policing minister, who told US Republicans in Washington in February that gay rights are compatible with conservatism, said last night he hoped the centre right in eastern Europe would follow the Tories' modernising example.

This it the bit that made me decide to write this post. Sure, people can attempt to say that gay rights are compatible with conservatism, but for that to be believed their mental habits will appear to be so lacking in discipline that they are content with the profession of a belief in incompatible principles. For a comparable idiotic comparison, see Confused Catholic Thinks Jesus was a Socialist.

Gay rights are not compatible with conservatism for the sole reason it violates the first conservative principle:
There exists an enduring moral order - order is made for man, and man is made for it: human nature is a constant, and moral truths are permanent.

I wonder if Nick Herbert will try to encourage the Polish to also follow Britain's example in stamping out homophobia from school children?

...[Britain] has begun creating school-based "hate registers" to track children accused of employing 'sexist, sexual and transphobic" putdowns in their playground banter. The British government is mulling a plan that would make it mandatory for schools to record such insults and report them to police, so a child as young as 5 who utters the wrong sort of slur — even if he has no idea what it means — could be monitored for future infractions and have the incident immortalized on his school record.

Related links: Nick Herbert hopes gay pride visit will stop homophobia of Euro allies ~ Guardian
UK Govt’ to Impose “Hate Registers” for British Children who Make Gay Comments ~ Life Site News

A note for our readers on Homosexuality.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,140 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."141 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

5 comment(s):

ZenTiger said...

I think there needs to be made a distinction, lest it be implied that gay people are deserving of persecution (they are not).

It is a principle of conservatism to respect human rights and principles of equality, and these should serve to protect people from persecution and unfair treatment, irrespective of their race, sex or sexual orientation.

There are a few issues hitting the spotlight at the moment, gay marriage being the biggest.

I think the debate lines are actually moving away from "gay marriage" to "gay family rights" and as the recognition of marriage happens, the emphasis moves on to the right of gay couples to adopt and transform the traditional definition of the family.

Personally, I think that most western countries will have legalised gay marriage within the next 15 years, and this is going to change the dynamics of the debate significantly.

What that means I'll leave for others to discuss.

ZenTiger said...

PS: It is not a principle of conservatism to report 5 year olds for thought crimes.

Psycho Milt said...

It is a principle of conservatism to respect human rights and principles of equality...

Thank you. It's this that Cameron has sent someone to Poland to support - ie, the support is not for a parade of raddled poofs getting their kit off in public and making fools of themselves, it's for basic principles that EU member are meant to abide by.

Andrei said...

I thought self determination was a principle that we are all meant to abide by live and let live I say.

If the people of Warsaw, Riga and Moscow don't want Gay Pride parades in their cities why should Gay Englishmen seek to impose them upon them?

Its called in your faceism something the left has developed into a fine art - you know going out of your way to be offensive and whining when someone who does take offense over reacts and gives you a well deserved smack in the face.

ZenTiger said...

Poland is interesting in that it loudly defends the institution of (traditional) marriage and the family, and sees gay marriage as eroding that, and yet legally, they have been tolerant of homosexuality for a long time.

(based on a wiki page)

"both male and female same-sex sexual activity are legal in Poland, and has been since 1932 when it was formaly legalised.

Previous laws prohibiting homosexuality were imposed by the occupying powers after Poland lost its independence during the years 1795-1918. Therefore there was never any anti-homosexual law imposed by the Polish government

The age of consent was equalized with that of heterosexual partners to 15 in 1969.

Gay people are not banned from military service.

And homosexuality was deleted from the list of diseases in 1991."


There is no question there are extremist elements that behave like thugs at gay events, doing their best to provoke a violent outburst. It's not clear to me how widespread those sorts of people are.

They play right into the hands of the LGBT groups, who probably have as many reporters ready to take their story to the world, as participants in the march. Most news reports on any events often from Poland turn up sourced from an LGBT site, and they emphasize the actions of a few as being representative of a majority.

I do not think it is. However, I don't think that the Poles want to redefine their concept of marriage and family in the name of "equality", just as they wouldn't want to allow polygamy to redefine marriage.

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